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I dont think we shall see such solutions. They didnt work then and I dont see why they would work now. You are giving away quite a large amount of wing area, but you are also putting a giant wall in front of the front wheel which has no use other than to comply to the rules(iic).

Teams will just keep the current outwash designs. afaik the Ferrari endplate itself conforms to the regulations so I see teams using that rather than the R29 end plate.

+1

i don't think teams will do it, there is not that much to gain for such a sacrifice of downforce

wesley123 wrote:They didnt work then and I dont see why they would work now.

They might wotk in 2014 far better than in 2009 because 2014 endplate will be almost centered in front of the wheels because of the narrower FW. They might direct air inside and outside the wheel more easily and symmetrically. They will remove less front wing surface than 2009 too, IMHO

You are giving away quite a large amount of wing area

Yes and no. This post answers the question very well
http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewto ... 36#p424436
Rjsa and Tryhard posts too
and Dont forget that the rear wing will lose much DF too...

but you are also putting a giant wall in front of the front wheel which has no use other than to comply to the rules(iic)

But those R29 endplates were a primitive version and since then all teams learned a huge amount of tricks to better manage the flow and the rules in that area with slits, vortex generators etc so that wall wont stay a wall IMO

Those endplates are certainly not legal in that form but I think outwash+inwash enplates are interesting especially for the 2014 rules.

Blackout wrote:

wesley123 wrote:They didnt work then and I dont see why they would work now.

They might wotk in 2014 far better than in 2009 because 2014 endplate will be almost centered in front of the wheels because of the narrower FW. They might direct air inside and outside the wheel more easily and symmetrically. They will remove less front wing surface than 2009 too, IMHO

There was around 75mm off either side right? They are still further down outboard than inboard. Yes, they are closer inboard than before, but you are still quite far away from the inside of the wheel. It isnt like pre-2009.

You are giving away quite a large amount of wing area

Yes and no. This post answers the question very well
http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewto ... 36#p424436
Rjsa and Tryhard posts too
and Dont forget that the rear wing will lose much DF too...

True, but it simply is lost wing area. Not to mention that current front end aero works on sending air around the tire. So for teams it would also be an more obvious choice. Yoiu have the choice between a well developped idea of air around the outside of the tire and all the stuff that comes with that(also inboard of the wheel), or you could develop this new solution.

Maybe you're right, and inside of the tire would be the better solution, I still think teams will be launching their cars with the outboard solution, mainly for the ease of it, and introduce the different solution for later in the season, when it is well developped.

Lot's of members have been saying the Front Wing serves a more important function than before, with the wingtips etc. everything is put right to aid flow further downstream. So that is also something big that has to be taken in account.

but you are also putting a giant wall in front of the front wheel which has no use other than to comply to the rules(iic)

But those R29 endplates were a primitive version and since then all teams learned a huge amount of tricks to better manage the flow and the rules in that area with slits, vortex generators etc so that wall wont stay a wall IMO

True about that, but afaik that was something disallowed for 2014(slits in the end plate) I have thought about it a little, and thought of various solutions. For example a large vane direction the air outboard, but afaik that would be illegal.

Another thing would be, what I already had seen was given by someone as a solution here, was that the top side of the end plate would send air inboard(and increase pressure by this move on the top surface) and the lower side would go outboard, which would reduce pressure under the wing. I believe that is the only solution of bleeding air inboard that could actually work.

This post was made in another topic;

turbof1 wrote:The issue though I am having with inboard endplates is that the air still comes very close to the wheels; you don't want to be sending dirty air towards the floor and diffuser. If possible, and it's a big IF, they could perhaps run a vortex running off from the endplate twisting right around the tyre inboard, shielding the air from the tyre wake. The only one I see capable of such a massive undertaking is Red Bull.

This is something teams are already doing. Saw those nice vortices last races? These vortices are created to shield the dirty air of the wheel away from the floor. Much like the barge boards pre-2009 did. They turn the air outward and away from the floor, increasing it's efficiency.

holm86 wrote:The reason I would send more air inwards of the front tires would be to get more air into the diffuser.

A diffuser doesn't necessarily start performing better by sending more air into it.

Like said in reaction to the quote above. The vortices shed by the front wing(together with the curvy panels and longer nose pillars) keep dirty air from the tire away from the clean air. This in turn allows the floor to work better by not receiving the dirty wheel wake.

The outboard end plate also has it's good work in that, the lower pressure not only improves airflow from under thr wing, but it also pulls the wheel wake out.

These together improve the airflow to the diffuser and make it work harder by shielding it from the wheel wake. You will simply throw that away by the inboard end plates. Not to mention you pretty much open up the wheel to the air stream, increasing drag.

More pics showing the narrower FW that Williams tested during the Silverstone young drivers days

I think one source of inspiration could be the wsr front wing, wbich seems to be very effective (see tha massive rear wing the car usually run to balance) and features an unusual oblique guide for the lower tip vortex. It is also narrower than the 2013 f1 fw

Looks to outwash. Interesting, probably what most teams will do next year.

At least one thing in the way these cars look is changing for the better.

Piola's take on 2014 FWEP's. Very aggressively turned OB.


via Piola/AutoSport

That's a lot of FW area allocated to divert air away from the tyres. Concerning the DF loss I think that is relative ok due rear DF getting a harsh beating as well, but this might also effect the possibilities to shape airflow structures to the rear.

aesthetically this would of course look good. Bigger endplates make the FW look smaller, getting even more rid of the 'out of shape' wings introduced in 2009.

Crucial_Xtreme wrote:Piola's take on 2014 FWEP's. Very aggressively turned OB.

http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/4034/vsy9.jpg
via Piola/AutoSport

This also move the cascades further in line and might help more with air over the tyre.

Btw do you have the entire video from autosport ?

I was thinking if this may just do the trick to push air around the wheels..



It's a narrow scoop that comes almost 1/3 the way into the width of the wing.
Think of it as a taco shell.
It is not obstructing much of the wing elements as it is suspended in the middle like the winglets and cascades found on the recent cars. However what this wing does is that it gathers air and turns it 90 degrees out to the sides of the car. The area narrows and creates a jet stream of very fast air.
This air stream will then impinge on the air coming along the end plates and may create a vortex.
Because the angle is as steep as will allow for diversion without turbulence, the air will be pushed quite wide to the sides.

Looks more likely to just stall and disrupt the main elements to me.