F1technical.net

Another image from page 74 of the E21 thread.



How many tubes/connectors/pipes would one normally expect to see hanging off a non-FRIC gearbox?

ringo wrote:No disrespect to scarbs, but he's not knowledgeable on the subject of suspension clearly, neither vibration theory.
He's simply going off what he reads or is told. So i wouldn't really take his words seriously. He's doing enough for the layman to have an idea how the system may work, even though he's not 100% correct.
Until you have an engineer writing articles you wont get much insight into formula 1 technology.

LOL, do you think I simply go off and write stuff? I research this stuff, work it out and then cross-check the facts with current Tech Directors, Designers and Engineers.
I knew about the simpler front to rear interlinked suspension in late 2010 and can name the engineers involved in the Renault development, that it made its debut in Germany 2009 and how its design disseminated to other teams in subsequent years. I broke the FRIC story back in 2011 and made Mercedes unhappy that their secret was let out. Since then I've had a series of F1 engineers explain more about it to me. For example this was from an F1 engineer on the subject of FRIC back 2011 "I'd say you would get a significant control of roll, heave and pitch with such a system with the valve openings based purely on the pressures at each corner, without needing any external control sources. It is closer in design to a braking system than other hydraulics as it is passive rather than controlled (and pressurised) externally."

We should all thank Scarbs. Not write whatever you people write about him. Scarbs is a big inspiration for me and I am sure for many other people. In my opinion he is THE best technical journalist out there. He does what he does without getting paid and brings REAL insights.
Anw, rant over.
The problem Nico had today is very interesting. I think he said that it felt as if a wheel was lifted off the track.

Edit: Ringo, by starting off with 'no disrespect' doesn't make what you wrote any less disrespectful

You tell im scarbs.

We used a similar system on my racing hydralastic mini in 1978 if I remember correctly.
I still have the modified hydralastic pump we used somewhere in the workshop.

Tony Rudd from Lotus took a look at it back then.

We also had a rally mini special fitted with a similar system, Midas I think, with a 1445 cc A series engine and one of my clutchflite automatic epicyclic gearboxes based on the AP unit with 5 gears and auto shift.

That flew.

scarbs wrote:LOL, do you think I simply go off and write stuff?
[...]

It works for me. I conjured a battery floor once.

bhallg2k wrote:

scarbs wrote:LOL, do you think I simply go off and write stuff?
[...]

It works for me. I conjured a battery floor once.

As long as you write a nice and long post they'll believe anything

I dunno. Red Bull uses supercapacitors affixed directly to the floor now. So...

bhallg2k wrote:

scarbs wrote:LOL, do you think I simply go off and write stuff?
[...]

It works for me. I conjured a battery floor once.

You don't have to be right, you simply have to be concise and thought provoking. Which a lot of the time you are bhall2k, as well as some others. That alone is enough to suggest a post is valuable IMO.

If in doubt of a good source of knowledge, a clue might be, if their work is published in a world wide respected publication, it's fairly safe to take those words on board with some credibility. Sure, don't take it as gospel, that's not scientific, but it's certainly more credible than a random forum member with fast fingers.

Crucial_Xtreme wrote:

dren wrote: Here is the full res image(right click>view image)

http://formula1.com/wi/enlarge/sutton/2 ... kor948.jpg
via Sutton Images

Looking at the picture an idea came to my mind - using hydraulic link instead of a complex mechanical one allows to move some bulky part to a more suitable place and it is applicable no matter there is a cross link or not between the axles. I mean a damper unit may consist of several separate parts instead of a single monolythic unit. Thus optimizing packing and weight/mass distribution.

scarbs wrote:LOL, do you think I simply go off and write stuff? I research this stuff, work it out and then cross-check the facts with current Tech Directors, Designers and Engineers.

Scarbs, I used to think I knew a bit about the mechanical set-up of race vehicles, but your article has changed my mind. For example you stated that the Merc system has removed the requirement for springs, I countered with a retorical "why would they want to that?" and suggested reasons why they might not want remove springs. Yesterday, on the BBC coverage, Rosberg was heard to say that he might have have experienced a rear bar failure....strange, but perhaps he was describing his failure in terms that others would understand....

scarbs wrote:For example this was from an F1 engineer on the subject of FRIC back 2011 "I'd say you would get a significant control of roll, heave and pitch with such a system with the valve openings based purely on the pressures at each corner, without needing any external control sources. It is closer in design to a braking system than other hydraulics as it is passive rather than controlled (and pressurised) externally."

Forgive me, but your source was talking double dutch for me (with apologies to our friends from the low country). I could make no sense of his statement at all .....

I'm Sorry, but what is "double dutch"?

Dragonfly wrote:I'm Sorry, but what is "double dutch"?

A euphemism for a language I don't understand.

Dragonfly wrote:I'm Sorry, but what is "double dutch"?

Double Dutch is using 2 forms of birth control, like the female on birth control pills and the male using a condom. Dont ask me why it is called "Double Dutch" but that is pretty much what it means.

Now back on topic lol

This reference is definitely NOT F1, but appears to contain much information that may be useful to those wishing to model an F1 hydrodynamic suspension.

scarbs wrote:LOL, do you think I simply go off and write stuff? I research this stuff, work it out and then cross-check the facts with current Tech Directors, Designers and Engineers.

I respect your efforts, but some readers such as myself don't really get technical fulfillment; sometimes we gotta do a double take too!

For example, when you say a mechanical spring is replaced by an in-compressible fluid, that's interesting. Then we think maybe you meant an air spring acted on hydraulically to replace a torsional spring. The amount of wasted energy in the form of heat should be considered among other concerns had me going.

Don't get me wrong, you are one of the few guys out there doing this kind of service. A good mix of tech and journalism. I salute you for that.

Thank you