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The season is not finished, with Rally GB now, and the runner up spot to be decided between Citroën (187 points), M-Sport (180 points), and Hyundai (175 points). This should be interesting!

Wow, what a boring season. It'll stay that way until VW leaves or someone brings the neccesary resources to compete with them. With Hirvonen gone, I imagine I'll miss a lot of rallies next year.

It's not even VW, it's VW+Ogier. Just like with Citroen+Loeb they are just a level above everyone. Not to talk the other drivers down, but Ogier and Loeb were just two rally drivers that were(or are, in Ogiers case) far better than the rest of the field.

wesley123 wrote:It's not even VW, it's VW+Ogier. Just like with Citroen+Loeb they are just a level above everyone. Not to talk the other drivers down, but Ogier and Loeb were just two rally drivers that were(or are, in Ogiers case) far better than the rest of the field.

I personally don't believe he's another Loeb. Loeb didn't ever have the huge car advantage Ogier has. I don't ever remember rally cars so dominant. Hell, they run 1-2 every race like MGP.

I find it hard to say if Volkswagen really has an advantage. With Loeb, Citroen showed pretty similar result, now with Loeb gone they are nowhere. I do find it that the rest of the field is rather average. I don't think I would badge anyone outside of Ogier and Latvala as good, and those two are Volkswagen drivers.

Just like with Citroen I do think Volkswagen's advantage mainly is their driver(s).

Basically, Loeb built his Citroen...a great Driver with a very personalized car. Ogier is also a great driver...started "pressing" Loeb in the Citroen. He was sacked and convinced VW to build/personalize his car.

Now, Ogier has a car tailor made for him...and dominating in a post Loeb era. Remove Ogier now...and its a competitive season....Remove Loeb back when, and the WDC is wide open. This domination of late is due to great drivers being given very good machinery very well suited to them personally.

I'd suspect you could even things up quite a bit via WRC handing out spec/tamperproof shocks at each event

wesley have you been to a WRC event? VW's structure is just another level. They change parts all the time, everything is new all the time, they even have people dedicated to make a phone app. Ogier is strong, but when you see that Latvala beats him on a regular basis now (even on tarmac), he's not at the same level as was Loeb.

VW has just unlimited budget, they have the best car. Citroen is doing what they can with no support and an old car, M-Sport is the same, and Hyundai has got lot of money, but no experience yet, so you have to be patient.

I used to watch a lot of rallying back when it was on TV a lot more. Now, not so much but I do miss watching it.

Yea it used to be great (as people say in F1, including me). The thing is that you cannot really identify yourself to the cars anymore. Tell me that this:



Is similar to this:



While before, the difference used to be this:





Not to mention the Fiesta I took is the "ST" version while the Subaru is the standard "GT-Turbo". You could get all those STI, R-Type, RA versions.

People need to identify themselves to the cars!!

But the main problem today is money. You have 2 manufacturers (VW, Hyundai), against 2 privateers (M-Sport, Citroën). David VS Goliath...

MadMatt wrote:wesley have you been to a WRC event? VW's structure is just another level. They change parts all the time, everything is new all the time, they even have people dedicated to make a phone app. Ogier is strong, but when you see that Latvala beats him on a regular basis now (even on tarmac), he's not at the same level as was Loeb.

VW has just unlimited budget, they have the best car. Citroen is doing what they can with no support and an old car, M-Sport is the same, and Hyundai has got lot of money, but no experience yet, so you have to be patient.

I do think it is a driver+team combination that is making the difference. Just like it was with Citroen+Loeb. If it was all car, then where is Mikkelsen? It's the effort as a whole that is making the difference, and Ogier and Latvala are an integral part of it's success.

Mikkelsen has never been a top driver and yet he's 3rd in the championship. The VW is just a so much superior car, but fair play to VW, they managed to spend their money well, unlike Hyundai at the moment, but let's see with the new cars next year.

But to get back to your answer, Ogier is strong yes, the same type as Loeb, but not as strong. I mean he's making mistakes, he's getting beaten on tarmac by Jari-Matti, and so on. As it was written also, he could develop the car for a whole year before VW entered the WRC, and they were doing rallies with the Fabia, from which many parts and concepts have been used on the Polo WRC. I always said that it would be impossible to Jari-Matti to equal Ogier with Ogier having so much more time behind the wheel, but he's done a very good job this season I must say.

What about M-Sport where Kubica is on the leave (for Citroën probably, as all seats are taken at VW), and Mikko as well. Another year where they will lose 2 top drivers, after they lose Neuville and Ostberg the year before.

MadMatt wrote: People need to identify themselves to the cars!!

That may be a problem, but the other problem is that there's unfortunately little market a small hatch back with an advanced active awd system. While I'd personally kill for a road going Polo WRC with all the cool bits from the rally car, the reality is such a car would be quite expensive and the people who could afford it probably don't want boy racer hatchbacks (sadly).

Well, that argument is not really valid since the technology of a 2014 Ford Fiesta RS WRC is much less advanced than the 1997 Subaru Impreza WRC shown here. I mean, there is no 4WD Fiesta that you can buy, same with Citroen, so wtf. Either make some sort of Focus RS2-like version of the Fiesta, or ban the advanced aero devices in the WRC.

Same with DTM. In the late 1980s it used to look like a road car (even early 1990s), look what the cars are today. Just prototypes. Nothing bad with that, but in the WRC it has always been a fact that the cars look very much like the one you can buy at your local dealership (for the lambda person of course, you're never gonna fool a real fan that his Fiesta ST is a weapon).

So the season is over! This is how Mikko's career ended:





Flat out to the end on the last corner of the last stage!

It was very close as well for Meeke:

wesley123 wrote:

MadMatt wrote:wesley have you been to a WRC event? VW's structure is just another level. They change parts all the time, everything is new all the time, they even have people dedicated to make a phone app. Ogier is strong, but when you see that Latvala beats him on a regular basis now (even on tarmac), he's not at the same level as was Loeb.

VW has just unlimited budget, they have the best car. Citroen is doing what they can with no support and an old car, M-Sport is the same, and Hyundai has got lot of money, but no experience yet, so you have to be patient.

I do think it is a driver+team combination that is making the difference. Just like it was with Citroen+Loeb. If it was all car, then where is Mikkelsen? It's the effort as a whole that is making the difference, and Ogier and Latvala are an integral part of it's success.

Where is Mikkelson? Right behind the other VWs