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Re: New tailpipe regulations (exit holes and loopholes)
Posted: 23 Oct 2015, 16:08
by Matt Somers
As Turbo said at least mine (and I'm sure Craig's is similar) theory revolved around the opposite: Using the wastegate exhaust to entrain flow at low speed out of the lower outlet, when the WG closes the route is easier for the airflow to run up the pylon and stall the wing, much the same as the way the F Duct worked.
In any case it appears we may be on a hiding to nothing as I understand there is a technical directive that prohibits what we've all proposed...
I'm in the throws of trying to get hold of said TD but it won't be until after the GP weekend now. Hopefully we can then unloophole said loophole
Re: New tailpipe regulations (exit holes and loopholes)
Posted: 25 Oct 2015, 19:31
by PlatinumZealot
I have the basic system sketched out. not yet drawn it on the computer. Not sure if it will work yet.
Challenges:
Is to get it to switch using the wastegate. because the wategate pipes is not isolation of the main exhaust.
To get the rear wing blown with these regs
To get the rear wing stalled
Re: New tailpipe regulations (exit holes and loopholes)
Posted: 26 Oct 2015, 00:53
by ringo
Matt Somers wrote:As Turbo said at least mine (and I'm sure Craig's is similar) theory revolved around the opposite: Using the wastegate exhaust to entrain flow at low speed out of the lower outlet, when the WG closes the route is easier for the airflow to run up the pylon and stall the wing, much the same as the way the F Duct worked.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-799TBMh7LO8/V ... active.png
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-n84ReIQtv7M/V ... Active.png
In any case it appears we may be on a hiding to nothing as I understand there is a technical directive that prohibits what we've all proposed...
I'm in the throws of trying to get hold of said TD but it won't be until after the GP weekend now. Hopefully we can then unloophole said loophole
That idea wont work if the waste gate pipe is not partially under the engine cover.
Re: New tailpipe regulations (exit holes and loopholes)
Posted: 26 Oct 2015, 15:28
by PlatinumZealot
Matt Somers wrote:As Turbo said at least mine (and I'm sure Craig's is similar) theory revolved around the opposite: Using the wastegate exhaust to entrain flow at low speed out of the lower outlet, when the WG closes the route is easier for the airflow to run up the pylon and stall the wing, much the same as the way the F Duct worked.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-799TBMh7LO8/V ... active.png
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-n84ReIQtv7M/V ... Active.png
In any case it appears we may be on a hiding to nothing as I understand there is a technical directive that prohibits what we've all proposed...
I'm in the throws of trying to get hold of said TD but it won't be until after the GP weekend now. Hopefully we can then unloophole said loophole
OK get a hold of it - I have a feeling it is to stop the rear wing stalling by any means.
Re: New tailpipe regulations (exit holes and loopholes)
Posted: 10 Dec 2015, 02:14
by PlatinumZealot
Scarbs and Matt.. calling Scarbs and Matt..come in Scarbs and Matt..
Re: New tailpipe regulations (exit holes and loopholes)
Posted: 10 Dec 2015, 10:19
by scarbs
PlatinumZealot wrote:Scarbs and Matt.. calling Scarbs and Matt..come in Scarbs and Matt..
I'm here, do you have your monkey staller to show us?
Re: New tailpipe regulations (exit holes and loopholes)
Posted: 04 Jan 2016, 19:35
by Matt Somers
I can now confirm I have a copy of the TD and it rules out using the wastegate to entrain flow for a fluidic switch....
Re: New tailpipe regulations (exit holes and loopholes)
Posted: 04 Jan 2016, 20:59
by scarbs
We're just missing the Monkey Staller now...!
Re: New tailpipe regulations (exit holes and loopholes)
Posted: 06 Jan 2016, 03:04
by PlatinumZealot
Matt Somers wrote:I can now confirm I have a copy of the TD and it rules out using the wastegate to entrain flow for a fluidic switch....
Haha. You know i did not get to move past the sketches stage. Why do you say that though? Are fluidic switches explicity blanned.
Re: New tailpipe regulations (exit holes and loopholes)
Posted: 06 Jan 2016, 15:55
by matt21
Matt Somers wrote:I can now confirm I have a copy of the TD and it rules out using the wastegate to entrain flow for a fluidic switch....
Do you mind sharing this TD with us?
Re: New tailpipe regulations (exit holes and loopholes)
Posted: 06 Jan 2016, 22:08
by Thunder
Scarbs posted this a few Minutes ago on the Topic.
http://scarbsf1.com/?p=4488#more-4488
Re: New tailpipe regulations (exit holes and loopholes)
Posted: 07 Jan 2016, 11:35
by Matt Somers
matt21 wrote:Matt Somers wrote:I can now confirm I have a copy of the TD and it rules out using the wastegate to entrain flow for a fluidic switch....
Do you mind sharing this TD with us?
I'd rather not I'm afraid as it came from a source, however, I'm still beating on the door to try and get the TD's in the public realm...
Suffice to say though the team questioning the legality drew the system as we had previously described and made this statement:
"The changes to the regulations to create a separate wastegate exit creates the possibility to use the opening of the wastegate as a control input for a fluidic valve."
Re: New tailpipe regulations (exit holes and loopholes)
Posted: 07 Jan 2016, 16:14
by PlatinumZealot
There is a possibility but that doesn't mean it will work well. I have a feeling they will let it slide.
It is difficult to get right for the reasons I mentioned before...
Re: New tailpipe regulations (exit holes and loopholes)
Posted: 26 Feb 2016, 02:33
by PlatinumZealot
Now that the cars are out and about, I hope you guys see the difficulty of integrating the F-duct with the wastegate pipes. It is still possible though but again check my earlier posts on the challenges.
Blown monkey seat is easier. I still have not found the time to model these.
Re: New tailpipe regulations (exit holes and loopholes)
Posted: 26 Feb 2016, 08:30
by hollus
What has changed now that we have seen the actual solutions? There was a directive banning such ducts, which suggests that the idea at least showed some promise.
Regarding your blown monkey seat... spill the beans or shut up!
Since this seems somehow to be about winning arguments (it wasn't), you still have a few weeks to show your design before anyone races in anger.