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Andres125sx wrote: ↑

06 Aug 2019, 07:49

subcritical71 wrote: ↑

05 Aug 2019, 18:41

I didn't mean to negate that the fumes are harmful, I just don't think they are as harmful as some try to scare you into believing.

Nobody try to scare me into believing, it´s science. It´s proven by science the fumes from an ICE are toxic and cause several respiratory problems. Nobody can negate this, well, at least same as nobody can negate the Earth is spherical... but still some people...

Just silly hating on ICE vehicles. Yes it’s science, from scientist that are behind certain agenda that has political and economical interests. Read unbiased reports and books where the truth resides.

You seem to be so smart, I’ll let you figure where those books are yourself.

People use cars to commit suicide, okay. Same can be said for guns, kitchen knifes, drugs, inhert gases, tall buildings, a random brick on the street and pretty much everything in existence can be used to do self-harm, even water can be lethal, not a valid point really.

Let’s just stay at home and basically stay in for the rest of our lives because there’s so much “harmful” stuff outside. Another step down the involution ladder

V12-POWER wrote: ↑

06 Aug 2019, 17:05

Just silly hating on ICE vehicles. Yes it’s science, from scientist that are behind certain agenda that has political and economical interests. Read unbiased reports and books where the truth resides.

You seem to be so smart, I’ll let you figure where those books are yourself.

People use cars to commit suicide, okay. Same can be said for guns, kitchen knifes, drugs, inhert gases, tall buildings, a random brick on the street and pretty much everything in existence can be used to do self-harm, even water can be lethal, not a valid point really.

Let’s just stay at home and basically stay in for the rest of our lives because there’s so much “harmful” stuff outside. Another step down the involution ladder

ICE vehicles aren't just bad for people. They are bad for the environment. And i can't belive that in this century, still there are people that don't understand why. Keeping the development of ICE vehicles is a waste of time. They will end.
And i don't think you have to be a scientist to understand why ICE vehicles are bad for your health.

Leaving aside the ICE v Electric fight, the more I look at it I really can not understand why or how we did not change to electric cars from the very least the 1950's. They make far more sense than ICE cars now, and if you consider how much development would have gone into them during that time it makes you gasp. Remember that in the early days of the car fuel had to be hand pumped and during the fuel stop lots of other things were checked, so a fuel stop took quite a while, and fuel stations were not on every street as they are today (except prob in some parts of USA).

So quite apart from the side effects I would like to see a full push anyway.

All we have to do now is convince people to accept nuclear energy generation.

Batteries weren't great back then, motors likewise, and the control systems would have been very bulky/heavy.

We have to remember that petrol was originally a bi-product of the production of kerosene so finding a use for it was important. And it was cheap as no one had any other use for it really. Cheap and plentiful, easy to store and move in large quantities, easy to handle. There was a lot going for petrol back then, certainly compared to the batteries of the day.

Just_a_fan wrote: ↑

06 Aug 2019, 18:48

Batteries weren't great back then, motors likewise, and the control systems would have been very bulky/heavy.

We have to remember that petrol was originally a bi-product of the production of kerosene so finding a use for it was important. And it was cheap as no one had any other use for it really. Cheap and plentiful, easy to store and move in large quantities, easy to handle. There was a lot going for petrol back then, certainly compared to the batteries of the day.

This (at about 3.5 min) really makes me think

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhnjMdzGusc

When you consider what the average person used a car for then a couple of standard car batteries would cover most things.

I can remember milk and post being delivered by electric vehicles. there was no problem doing a couple days rounds

V12-POWER wrote: ↑

06 Aug 2019, 17:05

Andres125sx wrote: ↑

06 Aug 2019, 07:49

subcritical71 wrote: ↑

05 Aug 2019, 18:41

I didn't mean to negate that the fumes are harmful, I just don't think they are as harmful as some try to scare you into believing.

Nobody try to scare me into believing, it´s science. It´s proven by science the fumes from an ICE are toxic and cause several respiratory problems. Nobody can negate this, well, at least same as nobody can negate the Earth is spherical... but still some people...

Just silly hating on ICE vehicles. Yes it’s science, from scientist that are behind certain agenda that has political and economical interests.

I think you´re confusing scientists with politicians. Scientists don´t have an agenda, it´s petrol companies, and countries who refuse to reduce their emissions, who have an agenda and also the necessary power to manipulate everything at their will. Not scientists, at least the majority

For the rest of the reply, I can only say that´s a good example of overreaction to a coment wich only say something as obvious as fumes from an exhaust are harmful. They are like it or not, actually it´s not just one substance wich is harmful, but several, this is not debatable, it´s proven facts

But that does not mean I think they should be anihilated from the planet or I consider them killing machines as you seem to have understood. I like them, I love the sound and I love driving at least as much as you do, period. But facts are facts, at the beginning they were something for few people with loads of money, but today everybody owns one if he will, some even more, so there are too many to continue ignoring that with so many cars all around those substances have become a real problem both for our health and environement.

Normally wind or rain prevent toxic concentrations as the substances are diluted into the atmosphere (or ground into the rain drops ), but only a few calm days cause those concentrations to scale up well over the limit recommended by health authorities. Before Tommy Cockers kick in I´ll clarify heating is even more harmful in this regard, but this also happen in summer with heating systems off so cars are not free of blame either

Big Tea wrote: ↑

06 Aug 2019, 18:54

Just_a_fan wrote: ↑

06 Aug 2019, 18:48

Batteries weren't great back then, motors likewise, and the control systems would have been very bulky/heavy.

We have to remember that petrol was originally a bi-product of the production of kerosene so finding a use for it was important. And it was cheap as no one had any other use for it really. Cheap and plentiful, easy to store and move in large quantities, easy to handle. There was a lot going for petrol back then, certainly compared to the batteries of the day.

This (at about 3.5 min) really makes me think

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhnjMdzGusc

When you consider what the average person used a car for then a couple of standard car batteries would cover most things.

I can remember milk and post being delivered by electric vehicles. there was no problem doing a couple days rounds

Wow didn´t know first electric car is from same era than first ICE car, thanks for posting

Amazing collection btw, I know he´s a star in the states, but OMG what a garage

Andres125sx wrote: ↑

06 Aug 2019, 19:44

Big Tea wrote: ↑

06 Aug 2019, 18:54

Just_a_fan wrote: ↑

06 Aug 2019, 18:48

Batteries weren't great back then, motors likewise, and the control systems would have been very bulky/heavy.

We have to remember that petrol was originally a bi-product of the production of kerosene so finding a use for it was important. And it was cheap as no one had any other use for it really. Cheap and plentiful, easy to store and move in large quantities, easy to handle. There was a lot going for petrol back then, certainly compared to the batteries of the day.

This (at about 3.5 min) really makes me think

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhnjMdzGusc

When you consider what the average person used a car for then a couple of standard car batteries would cover most things.

I can remember milk and post being delivered by electric vehicles. there was no problem doing a couple days rounds

Wow didn´t know first electric car is from same era than first ICE car, thanks for posting

Amazing collection btw, I know he´s a star in the states, but OMG what a garage

I thought the EV was first, then the ICE, now we are coming full circle...

Andres125sx wrote: ↑

06 Aug 2019, 19:37

Scientists don´t have an agenda,

That's simply not true. Science doesn't have an agenda, but the people doing it sure can do. They need to get funding in order to do the science. That funding can, and does, come with strings attached. That, sadly, can and does affect the outcome.

Just a Fan has it right in that battery technology and the agenda of scientists held the electric car back.
I'm surprised many don't know that the first successful electric was 1890 and they were once back then the thing to have. They were all over the place.
Wouldn't doubt Ford paid someone off.

santos wrote: ↑

06 Aug 2019, 17:23

V12-POWER wrote: ↑

06 Aug 2019, 17:05

Just silly hating on ICE vehicles. Yes it’s science, from scientist that are behind certain agenda that has political and economical interests. Read unbiased reports and books where the truth resides.

You seem to be so smart, I’ll let you figure where those books are yourself.

People use cars to commit suicide, okay. Same can be said for guns, kitchen knifes, drugs, inhert gases, tall buildings, a random brick on the street and pretty much everything in existence can be used to do self-harm, even water can be lethal, not a valid point really.

Let’s just stay at home and basically stay in for the rest of our lives because there’s so much “harmful” stuff outside. Another step down the involution ladder

ICE vehicles aren't just bad for people. They are bad for the environment. And i can't belive that in this century, still there are people that don't understand why. Keeping the development of ICE vehicles is a waste of time. They will end.
And i don't think you have to be a scientist to understand why ICE vehicles are bad for your health.

I hope that by “bad for the environment” you’re not talking about global warming or it’s younger sibling climate change, because there’s enough data to prove man made climate change is simply not real and not caused by ICEs. Same for global warming.

As for our health, the smoke of cigarettes is much much worse than exhaust fumes but I don’t see so much enthusiasm globally to circumvent this.

V12-POWER wrote: ↑

06 Aug 2019, 23:45

I hope that by “bad for the environment” you’re not talking about global warming or it’s younger sibling climate change, because there’s enough data to prove man made climate change is simply not real and not caused by ICEs. Same for global warming.

As for our health, the smoke of cigarettes is much much worse than exhaust fumes but I don’t see so much enthusiasm globally to circumvent this.

Thanks for confirming you are a science-denying nutter with zero credibility.

Why do you feel the need to rely on insults.
Show me your scientists. Or do you just have quotes from media propagandist?

strad wrote: ↑

07 Aug 2019, 00:22

Why do you feel the need to rely on insults.
Show me your scientists. Or do you just have quotes from media propagandist?

This is an engineering forum, engineering is based on science, anyone who can't grasp that there is complete consensus (and for good reason) in the scientific community that global warming is caused by man, needs their head examined.

I'd suggest you start here: https://www.edf.org/climate/9-ways-we-k ... ate-change

djos wrote: ↑

07 Aug 2019, 00:14

V12-POWER wrote: ↑

06 Aug 2019, 23:45

I hope that by “bad for the environment” you’re not talking about global warming or it’s younger sibling climate change, because there’s enough data to prove man made climate change is simply not real and not caused by ICEs. Same for global warming.

As for our health, the smoke of cigarettes is much much worse than exhaust fumes but I don’t see so much enthusiasm globally to circumvent this.

Thanks for confirming you are a science-denying nutter with zero credibility.

Show the compelling scientific data that convinced you.