F1technical.net

Holm86 wrote:

Kiril Varbanov wrote:
Thats a pretty bad translation Kiril. As I reed the article it says that it will be prohibited to adjust the gill sensor. Because apparently all Renault engine teams has modified the Gill sensor to fit between the tank and the fuel pick-up.

Thanks for the correction. I usually rely on the headlines provided by AMuS, but I shall either learn German or stop relying at all...

Holm86 wrote: Im surprised the FIA even allowed renault powered teams to fiddle with the sensor in the first place.

Exactly. Why even homologate a Part when the Teams are allowed to modify it?

Holm86 wrote:[...]Im surprised the FIA even allowed renault powered teams to fiddle with the sensor in the first place.

To be precise, in the article there is no mention that the FIA allowed a modification to RB, TR and Lotus. Maybe they were never asked about....?

Also, an interseting remark about the fuel:
If the banning of sensor modifications will not yield the expected result and these three teams will continue to have problems with it, fuel may come under investigation, as there are rumours that Toro Rosso uses Total as well as the others, despite sponshorship of spanish Cepsa.

Abarth wrote: To be precise, in the article there is no mention that the FIA allowed a modification to RB, TR and Lotus. Maybe they were never asked about....?

hmm if the FIA didn't know about it wouldn't it be a Rule breach and the would have to DQ the 3 Teams?

Since that didn't happen i think the FIA knew about it, which is not understandable or acceptable at all.

Helmut Marko wrote:"We are currently 80 horse power behind. An increase of 40 horse power would be enough, because we can make up that difference with the chassis."

So some people thought Merc had an advantage of 100 hp in February. Now Red Bull officially confirm they are still 80 hp behind with the Renault engine. At least it more or less fits the figures we get for fuel consumption. Red Bull used 8.2% more fuel on Vettel's car than Williams on Massa's car. I'm starting to believe the 100 Hp plus story. At least I'm convinced the figure was close.

When there is no way that Renault would go that wrong on the ICE and the MGU-K is limited by power and battery-feed,
the 80 Hp obviously lies in the unrestricted energy transfer between the MGU-H and battery, as well as directly to the MGU-K.

Little doubt that MHPE in Northampton has had substantial help from Daimler in Sindelfingen on this, with its vast resources.

Filed this afternoon, here is the drivers entered in the 2014 Formula One Championship have used the below listed number of power unit elements during this season so far:

ICE Internal Combustion Engine

TC Turbo Charger

MGU-K Motor Generator Unit – Kinetic

MGU-H Motor Generator Unit – Heat

ES Energy Store

CE Control Electronics

Team Driver ICE TC MGU-K MGU-H ES CE

Red Bull Vettel 1 1 1 1 1 3
Red Bull Ricciardo 1 1 2 1 1 1
Mercedes Hamilton 1 1 1 1 1 1
Mercedes Rosberg 1 1 1 1 1 1
Ferrari Alonso 1 1 1 1 1 1
Ferrari Raikkonen 1 1 1 1 1 1
Lotus Grosjean 1 1 1 1 1 1
Lotus Pastor 2 2 2 2 2 2
McLaren Button 1 1 1 1 1 1
McLaren Magnussen 1 1 1 1 1 1
F India Hulkenberg 1 1 1 1 1 1
F India Perez 1 1 1 1 1 1
Sauber Sutil 1 1 1 1 1 1
Sauber Guitierrez 1 1 1 1 1 2
T Rosso JEV 1 1 2 1 1 1
T Rosso Kvyat 1 1 2 1 1 1
Williams Massa 1 1 1 1 2 2
Williams Bottas 1 1 1 1 1 1
Marussia Bianchi 1 1 1 1 1 2
Marussia Chilton 1 1 1 1 1 2
Caterham Kobayashi 1 1 1 1 3 4
Caterham Ericsson 1 1 1 1 2 3

Errr looks worrying for Kobayashi?? I'm assuming none of the numbers can go past 5 without penalties?

Also for Vettel on 3 Control Electronics.

Ferrari and Mercedes clearly the engine to have.

As for the 80hp advantage that's all recovered power; self sustained power.

This applies when those 33 seconds a lap of Stored energy is extended because the MGUH is powering the MGUK.

I believe there is a lot of power to be had from the MGUH. The engine power is more than likely maximised by all teams, all have dynos and have surely experimented to find the maximum with the allotted fuel.

In fact i'd go as far to say that mercedes don't have the most powerful ICE, i think that title goes to ferrari.
The log manifold demonstrates that they don't seem to mind sacrificing top end power for the Recovery systems and average power and torque.

ringo wrote:[...]
The log manifold demonstrates that they don't seem to mind sacrificing top end power for the Recovery systems and average power and torque.

I'd rather say that they sacrified PU power AND efficiency for a neat packaging, as both go hand in hand in a fuel limited formula.

AMuS posted some pictures from Marussia and Catherham, as well as FI and Mercedes, where you can see that Mercedes has gone the way of the neatest packaging without exhaust collector going above the cylinder heads with "big" radii.

Apart that, I don't believe Marko one word.

WhiteBlue wrote:

Helmut Marko wrote:"We are currently 80 horse power behind. An increase of 40 horse power would be enough, because we can make up that difference with the chassis."

So some people thought Merc had an advantage of 100 hp in February. Now Red Bull officially confirm they are still 80 hp behind with the Renault engine. At least it more or less fits the figures we get for fuel consumption. Red Bull used 8.2% more fuel on Vettel's car than Williams on Massa's car. I'm starting to believe the 100 Hp plus story. At least I'm convinced the figure was close.

The rumor said the Merc has a 100hp in the IC engine alone. But Marko hints Renault has a 80hp deficit in the whole PU.
And I dont' believe Marko neither... RedBull might have a 80hp handicap, not Renault. Looking on Toro Rosso's top speed and its S2 and S3 in Sepang, that car doesn't seem to have a 80hp deficit...
Pemrane confirms Renault is struggling with MGUK<-->MGUH energy delivery and says the Lotus lacks power compared to the other Renault due to its turbo cooling...

Blackout wrote:

WhiteBlue wrote:

Helmut Marko wrote:"We are currently 80 horse power behind. An increase of 40 horse power would be enough, because we can make up that difference with the chassis."

So some people thought Merc had an advantage of 100 hp in February. Now Red Bull officially confirm they are still 80 hp behind with the Renault engine. At least it more or less fits the figures we get for fuel consumption. Red Bull used 8.2% more fuel on Vettel's car than Williams on Massa's car. I'm starting to believe the 100 Hp plus story. At least I'm convinced the figure was close.

The rumor said the Merc has a 100hp in the IC engine alone. But Marko hints Renault has a 80hp deficit in the whole PU.
And I dont' believe Marko neither... RedBull might have a 80hp handicap, not Renault. Looking on Toro Rosso's top speed and its S2 and S3 in Sepang, that car doesn't seem to have a 80hp deficit...
Pemrane confirms Renault is struggling with MGUK<-->MGUH energy delivery and says the Lotus lacks power compared to the other Renault due to its turbo cooling...

That's all fine and all, except toro rosso was achieving exactly the same top speeds trough speed traps in the race as red bull up front. And as I said before, it could be renault has good PEAK power, but can't sustain it for very long without a meltdown.

Oh, regarding fuel consumption...

I already posted a link the other day, and from tis data you can't see whether it's a Mercedes or Renault or Ferrari Engine.

Compare eg. Rosberg with Massa, big difference, same engine.
That's why I said that the consumption seems to correlate much more with the aerodynamic setup, RB and Ferrari of Alonso being high downforce/drag, and Williams low drag.
This could be seen comparing S2 times, and also Williams performance in the wet, wich was so so compared to dry.

Juzh wrote:

Blackout wrote: The rumor said the Merc has a 100hp in the IC engine alone. But Marko hints Renault has a 80hp deficit in the whole PU.
And I dont' believe Marko neither... RedBull might have a 80hp handicap, not Renault. Looking on Toro Rosso's top speed and its S2 and S3 in Sepang, that car doesn't seem to have a 80hp deficit...
Pemrane confirms Renault is struggling with MGUK<-->MGUH energy delivery and says the Lotus lacks power compared to the other Renault due to its turbo cooling...

That's all fine and all, except toro rosso was achieving exactly the same top speeds trough speed traps in the race as red bull up front. And as I said before, it could be renault has good PEAK power, but can't sustain it for very long without a meltdown.

Yes and no.
We are also talking about peak power anyway.
The RB10 has abvioulsy more downforce but it doesnt seem to have the same peak power as the STR IMO.
19 F. MASSA 324.5 17:26:01
2 77 V. BOTTAS 320.6 16:13:04
3 27 N. HULKENBERG 312.9 16:32:52
4 6 N. ROSBERG 312.7 17:10:41
5 26 D. KVYAT 310.0 16:11:16
6 7 K. RAIKKONEN 309.5 16:30:16
7 22 J. BUTTON 308.4 16:29:46
8 1 S. VETTEL 307.7 17:03:39
9 14 F. ALONSO 307.4 17:37:41
10 9 M. ERICSSON 306.3 16:13:11
11 44 L. HAMILTON 305.9 17:33:18
12 20 K. MAGNUSSEN 305.6 16:59:13