F1technical.net

xpensive wrote:Perhaps we have two very similar threads going here moderator, this one and "Technical regulations for..."? Anyway I still find a 1500 cc, mildly boosted, 600 Hp I-4 just a tad simplistic for F1. I hope they stick with the 2.4 V8 or go with a 1.8 V6-TC.

We practically see a one to two step cylinder downgrade with each engine project that gets released for turbo charged direct injection petrol engines.

The BMW M5 V10 engine will go to V8. (edited to correct a mistake)

The 1 series I-4 will go to I-3

Most American V8 will go to V6

The list can go on and on. The classical F1 turbo engine is a 1.5L V6 with the occasional I-4 (BMW) also being quite successful.

The return to turbos will aim at the same displacement class but the general trend points to a lower cylinder count with V4, W4 or I-4 the more probable solutions. The trend has been too long towards heavier and heavier cars.

I feel that the minimum weight needs to come down again and particularly the fueled weight should go down significantly by some 70 kg fuel savings at least. So fully fuelled F1 cars with drivers that will weight around 800 kg in 2011 should come down again to 700 kg. The weight with drivers to 610 kg at the end of the race.

If going to 1500cc-TC is the only option, a straight four would be the obvious solution I guess, when it will be interesting to see who
dares to mount it in a tilted position as Gordon Murray did with the BT55, one of the most beautiful F1 cars ever, if you ask me.

WhiteBlue wrote:The BMW M5 V12 engine will go to V8

The M5 is a v10 not v12

010010011010 wrote:

WhiteBlue wrote:The BMW M5 V12 engine will go to V8

The M5 is a v10 not v12

oops, my bad! so cylinder reduction will go V10 -> V8

Under this scenario, engines would be made much smaller - about 1.5 litres, in either a straight 4-cylinder or V6 configuration - and turbocharged.

manufacturers aiming to hold power output at current levels

quoted from the BBC website

how is that possible from a little 1.5 engine? And would they still rev to 18,000rpm being that small?

sorry i have no clue about engines so i may be sounding stupid here

astracrazy wrote:

Under this scenario, engines would be made much smaller - about 1.5 litres, in either a straight 4-cylinder or V6 configuration - and turbocharged.

manufacturers aiming to hold power output at current levels

quoted from the BBC website

how is that possible from a little 1.5 engine? And would they still rev to 18,000rpm being that small?

sorry i have no clue about engines so i may be sounding stupid here

The 1.5 Turbos in the 1980s were producing over 900BHP in race conditions and in qualifying they'd exceed 1100BHP. It's perfectly possible.

Scotracer wrote:
The 1.5 Turbos in the 1980s were producing over 900BHP in race conditions and in qualifying they'd exceed 1100BHP. It's perfectly possible.

sorry i know it is, i just meant how? im not good with engines at all so im just asking whats different

astracrazy wrote:

Scotracer wrote:
The 1.5 Turbos in the 1980s were producing over 900BHP in race conditions and in qualifying they'd exceed 1100BHP. It's perfectly possible.

sorry i know it is, i just meant how? im not good with engines at all so im just asking whats different

The higher the density of charge you can get in to a cylinder, the more power it will produce. This comes from Brake Mean Effective Pressure. With a normally aspirated car you obviously have your intake pressure fairly close to 1bar (depending on RAM effects and pumping losses etc) but with a Turbo it can be anywhere north of 1bar - in 1986 the F1 Turbos were reaching a peak of 5.5bar.

5.5 bar? really? that is astounding, I remember hearing 4 but 5.5 just inconprehensible.

Which ones? the Hondas or the BMW's?

ISLAMATRON wrote:5.5 bar? really? that is astounding, I remember hearing 4 but 5.5 just inconprehensible.

Which ones? the Hondas or the BMW's?

The BMW was confirmed at 5.5bar at Monza during qualifying in '86. They had to manufacture the head and block as one piece, otherwise it would just warp itself in to oblivion.

http://www.manipef1.com/news/articles/11276/?

Gallagher, Cosworth wrote:There is a significant push towards having a much smaller engine, possibly an inline 4 cylinder, turbocharged, quite a small capacity in the region of 1.5 to 2 litres.

Confirmation that Cosworth are in the loop and positive about the 2013 formula.

if the engine is that small i.e. 1.5L will it be a stressed member?

what is the purpose of downsizing of the engine from its current 2.4L, they can still have a the same 2.4L turbocharged at a lower boost pressure and have a lower devlopment cost.

WilliamsF1 wrote:if the engine is that small i.e. 1.5L will it be a stressed member?

what is the purpose of downsizing of the engine from its current 2.4L, they can still have a the same 2.4L turbocharged at a lower boost pressure and have a lower devlopment cost.

Displacement doesn't necessarily mean a smaller engine size (it will, but it doesn't have to). There will still probably be a minimun weight for a 1.5 - 2L engine, so the block can be made larger than it otherwise would need to be.

xxChrisxx wrote:

WilliamsF1 wrote:if the engine is that small i.e. 1.5L will it be a stressed member?

what is the purpose of downsizing of the engine from its current 2.4L, they can still have a the same 2.4L turbocharged at a lower boost pressure and have a lower devlopment cost.

Displacement doesn't necessarily mean a smaller engine size (it will, but it doesn't have to). There will still probably be a minimun weight for a 1.5 - 2L engine, so the block can be made larger than it otherwise would need to be.

It will depend on the regulations and whether the KERS adaptation is included in engine weight and size.

WilliamsF1 wrote:if the engine is that small i.e. 1.5L will it be a stressed member?

what is the purpose of downsizing of the engine from its current 2.4L, they can still have a the same 2.4L turbocharged at a lower boost pressure and have a lower devlopment cost.

It is to clear up space for energy recovery whilst maintaining or increasing ic engine development within a fuel limited formula.