F1technical.net

godlameroso wrote:Electrical is as generic a term as you can get, many parts are electrical, MGU-H, MGU-K, the alternator(if there is one), control electronics, wiring, batteries, ignition system, even something silly like faulty grounds, or maybe there's something funky going on with the ignition and fuel injection. Who knows.

If the crankshaft falls out the bottom of the engine, then the alternator doesn't get turned and it doesn't make electric power. It's an electrical problem.

garrett wrote:I don´t want to bash the Sakura people at all, as I highly appreciate Honda´s chutzpah to cross swords with the other, more experienced manufacturers. =D> In contrary to the people at VW, BMW and Ford who are hiding themselves in fear of this arduous competition.

Well put. A huge company like Ford is currently f*cking around in the little-boy GTE class at LeMans instead of putting their asses on the line with a grown-up LMP1 car. They won LeMans 2016 by gaming the BOP (balance of performance) rules. A marketing success yes, but I guarantee the Honda F1 engineers are now more capable people than the "successful" Ford GT engineers.

Many threads on this website end up revolving around issues of whether F1 is a marketing exercise or a sport. Honda is treating F1 like a sport, and I respect them no end for it.

bill shoe wrote:

godlameroso wrote:Electrical is as generic a term as you can get, many parts are electrical, MGU-H, MGU-K, the alternator(if there is one), control electronics, wiring, batteries, ignition system, even something silly like faulty grounds, or maybe there's something funky going on with the ignition and fuel injection. Who knows.

If the crankshaft falls out the bottom of the engine, then the alternator doesn't get turned and it doesn't make electric power. It's an electrical problem.

Hi to all, i'm an electrical consultant from UAB university of barcelona, we are talking about the electrical problemes of PU, if possible to fix it using a floating earth point? Not a simple ground, i don't know if it is possible in a PU, but we think it the fast way to isolation.

Enviado desde mi LG-D802 mediante Tapatalk

ok so just a question here,

it seems the new pu has quite the problems, and they'll need to both downtune it and can't fix it before half the season is
gone?

but why wouldn't they 'just' run last year's PU whilst they 'fix' the current engine?

also, why on earth won't they just grab an old f1 model car (2015) for example, or hell, grab a GP2 car,
and mount the engine in there and just drive and test it - like a mule - and just sort it out asap like that?

Manoah2u wrote:ok so just a question here,

it seems the new pu has quite the problems, and they'll need to both downtune it and can't fix it before half the season is
gone?

but why wouldn't they 'just' run last year's PU whilst they 'fix' the current engine?

also, why on earth won't they just grab an old f1 model car (2015) for example, or hell, grab a GP2 car,
and mount the engine in there and just drive and test it - like a mule - and just sort it out asap like that?

Homologation?

Wazari, I really hope your daughter gets over, as my mother did some years ago . Keep positive, and do what neccessary to help her positive too, our minds can be best weapon. There are a lot of studies stating our attitude have a massive influence to get over any illness. But I guess you know and that´s playing a huge role on your retirement.

Good luck, and enjoy your retirement and your family. All the rest is secondary


And obviously thank you once more for your contribution, they´re priceless for many of us =D>

Thanks a lot Wazari for all your contributions. they kept us positive , though falsely. its sad to see you "going" into retirement and when "mclaren-honda" reputation is at lowest. very sad with state of affairs at "honda". seriously all japanese technical excellence is discredited. Best of luck for future endeavours , happy retirement and my best wishes for your daughter and family.

Manoah2u wrote:
also, why on earth won't they just grab an old f1 model car (2015) for example, or hell, grab a GP2 car,
and mount the engine in there and just drive and test it - like a mule - and just sort it out asap like that?

"Honda has not used test mules because mainly we don’t know when to stop. That is a fault. HRD is constantly trying to make improvements until the last moment and I struggle at times with this mentality. "

namao wrote:

Manoah2u wrote:
also, why on earth won't they just grab an old f1 model car (2015) for example, or hell, grab a GP2 car,
and mount the engine in there and just drive and test it - like a mule - and just sort it out asap like that?

"Honda has not used test mules because mainly we don’t know when to stop. That is a fault. HRD is constantly trying to make improvements until the last moment and I struggle at times with this mentality. "

Another thing is that Honda for some reason is reving their engine much higher up than Mercedes Ferrari and Renault. up to 1000 rpm more t han the others. This also causes stress on the engine.

They were with the old engine to make the power - they probably aren't with the new one.

This is the lap/km count excluding today

MGP______989___4604
Ferrari____844___3929
Sauber____687___3198
Williams__.667___3105
FI__________657___3058
Haas______.639___2975
RBR_______613___2854
Renault___509___2369
STR_______.452___2104
McHonda_382___1778

McLaren did 54 laps on average per day and needed 6 (or 7?) engines for that

This is 64 laps per engine, or just about 300km (1/10th of what they will have to do during the season)

Looking at those numbers I wonder if any of the Honda engines went past 1000km or even 500km on the test bed.

Merc did 6000km on the test bed and is past 1000 laps now on two engines ~2300km per engine on the track.

PhillipM wrote:They were with the old engine to make the power - they probably aren't with the new one.

They still are. If you are looking at the videos they are definitely reving higher than the others.
They are also having much higher rpm on the main straight and shifting to 8. gear 500 m after the rest.
For me that seems that the engine is lacking tourqe and has a very peaky power curve.

bill shoe wrote:

garrett wrote:I don´t want to bash the Sakura people at all, as I highly appreciate Honda´s chutzpah to cross swords with the other, more experienced manufacturers. =D> In contrary to the people at VW, BMW and Ford who are hiding themselves in fear of this arduous competition.

Well put. A huge company like Ford is currently f*cking around in the little-boy GTE class at LeMans instead of putting their asses on the line with a grown-up LMP1 car. They won LeMans 2016 by gaming the BOP (balance of performance) rules. A marketing success yes, but I guarantee the Honda F1 engineers are now more capable people than the "successful" Ford GT engineers.

GT racing is just gaming the BOP and has very little to do with technical excellence. There's no doubt that Honda's engineers are learning more considering a large amount of the GT project was done outside of Ford. The question is really how much of this high technology high cost engine format is really transferable Honda's roadcar business, which is primarily mass producing relatively inexpensive family cars. I imagine it's unlikely we'll see road cars employing MGU-H style harvesting because the operating conditions of a fuel rate limited race engine is very different to that experienced in road cars. To that end you have to wonder how much better the marketing benefit is to do it 'Mercedes style' is compared to Honda's engineers getting experience that could potentially never manifest into Honda's core business.

Cold Fussion wrote:

bill shoe wrote:

garrett wrote:I don´t want to bash the Sakura people at all, as I highly appreciate Honda´s chutzpah to cross swords with the other, more experienced manufacturers. =D> In contrary to the people at VW, BMW and Ford who are hiding themselves in fear of this arduous competition.

Well put. A huge company like Ford is currently f*cking around in the little-boy GTE class at LeMans instead of putting their asses on the line with a grown-up LMP1 car. They won LeMans 2016 by gaming the BOP (balance of performance) rules. A marketing success yes, but I guarantee the Honda F1 engineers are now more capable people than the "successful" Ford GT engineers.

GT racing is just gaming the BOP and has very little to do with technical excellence. There's no doubt that Honda's engineers are learning more considering a large amount of the GT project was done outside of Ford. The question is really how much of this high technology high cost engine format is really transferable Honda's roadcar business, which is primarily mass producing relatively inexpensive family cars. I imagine it's unlikely we'll see road cars employing MGU-H style harvesting because the operating conditions of a fuel rate limited race engine is very different to that experienced in road cars. To that end you have to wonder how much better the marketing benefit is to do it 'Mercedes style' is compared to Honda's engineers getting experience that could potentially never manifest into Honda's core business.

Is not just R&D but marketing as well. If a Sunday win can get a millennial to buy a Civic instead of a Corolla, the effort will be worth it...