F1technical.net

Facts Only wrote:There are definitely no clutches in the current turbochargers. Source; first hand knowledge.

Nobody is saying or suggesting there is a clutch in a turbocharger (ie between the turbine and the compressor).
Instead, it is pointed out that there is a possibility of fitting a clutch in between the turbo's shaft and the shaft of the MGU-H (which is the electrical motor that either taps energy from the shaft's rotation or otherwise speeds it up by using electrical energy from the battiers.

xpensive wrote:As you obviously don't bother to read my posts, I'll let this one rest.

Ok, re-read your post and see that you said to disconnect the turbine. ie you spool up the compressor.

Steven wrote:

Facts Only wrote:There are definitely no clutches in the current turbochargers. Source; first hand knowledge.

Nobody is saying or suggesting there is a clutch in a turbocharger (ie between the turbine and the compressor).
Instead, it is pointed out that there is a possibility of fitting a clutch in between the turbo's shaft and the shaft of the MGU-H (which is the electrical motor that either taps energy from the shaft's rotation or otherwise speeds it up by using electrical energy from the battiers.

X is suggesting just that.

I re-read some posts several times, and if that is what he's suggesting (still not entirely clear to me), then I'm curious to see how the rules can be interpreted to make any such setup legal... I think the rules are pretty clear (for once).

Steven wrote:

Facts Only wrote:There are definitely no clutches in the current turbochargers. Source; first hand knowledge.

Nobody is saying or suggesting there is a clutch in a turbocharger (ie between the turbine and the compressor).
Instead, it is pointed out that there is a possibility of fitting a clutch in between the turbo's shaft and the shaft of the MGU-H (which is the electrical motor that either taps energy from the shaft's rotation or otherwise speeds it up by using electrical energy from the battiers.

Thank you esteemed Owner, the problem, as wusak points out, is if you apply 5.2.4 on a split-turbo, it will contradict 5.1.6, where I argue this is the loophole that MHPE found to make use of the compact log xhaust with retained throttle response.

An interesting situation which brings back memories of 2009, with holes vs slots.

X, I think the double diffuser loophole in 2009 is a different situation.

The rules disallowed holesin the floor. Whet the DD teams did is create a hole/slot in the vertical transition between the reference plane and the step plane, and behind the line that requires teh step to be parallel.

Careful wuz, you might get a ban for being OT.

Just pointing out the difference between the 2009 regulation loop hole (section for inlet wasn't covered) and the 2014 engine regs.

I know what you are saying wuz, its just that I'm totally convinced this is part of the MHPE secret, I suspect they got a go-ahead from the spannerman early on before anyone realized the conflicting implications regulation-wise.

Things like that can happen when you are desperate to keep a certain brand in Formula 1.

Facts Only wrote:There are definitely no clutches in the current turbochargers. Source; first hand knowledge.

Yep however as the MGU-H is in between the two halves if the turbo it's stands to reason the the turbo shaft passes thru the MGU-H and the clutch mechanism can engage or disengage the MGU-H at will without disconnecting the two halves of the turbo.

There's nothing particularly revolutionary about such a system IMO, I mean in WW2 they could fire bullets through a prop-shaft without issues.

djos wrote:

Facts Only wrote:There are definitely no clutches in the current turbochargers. Source; first hand knowledge.

Yep however as the MGU-H is in between the two halves if the turbo it's stands to reason the the turbo shaft passes thru the MGU-H and the clutch mechanism can engage or disengage the MGU-H at will without disconnecting the two halves of the turbo.

There's nothing particularly revolutionary about such a system IMO, I mean in WW2 they could fire bullets through a prop-shaft without issues.

The barrel of the gun was placed inside the hollow drive shaft. Nothing magic there.

wuzak wrote:

djos wrote:

Facts Only wrote:There are definitely no clutches in the current turbochargers. Source; first hand knowledge.

Yep however as the MGU-H is in between the two halves if the turbo it's stands to reason the the turbo shaft passes thru the MGU-H and the clutch mechanism can engage or disengage the MGU-H at will without disconnecting the two halves of the turbo.

There's nothing particularly revolutionary about such a system IMO, I mean in WW2 they could fire bullets through a prop-shaft without issues.

The barrel of the gun was placed inside the hollow drive shaft. Nothing magic there.

Exactly my point, nothing magic at all.

Actually, the gun and the prop were synchronized so that the gun could fire through the prop arc. see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synchronization_gear

That's another system.
The BF109 had a cannon trough the driveshaft and had syncronising for it's MG's.

This is the hole through which the cannon was poked.



And here is an earlier Hisoano-Suiza V-12 with moteur cannon



In both cases the cannon barrel was in teh vee and threaded through the reduction gearing.

It couldn't be done with the Merlin because teh supercharger and other intake gear was in the way.

Similarly for the Allison, but Bell got around that by mid mounting teh engine and driving the prop via extension shaft, with the cannon in between (as wekk as the pilot).