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I don't really follow PU development. Is this legit?

Andy Cowell wrote:In the fuel are 1,240 kilowatts of potentially available energy and currently we get only 50 percent of it out. In 2014, the people were a miracle that we could make 40 percent usable.

That strikes me as really high.

bhall II wrote:I don't really follow PU development. Is this legit?

Andy Cowell wrote:In the fuel are 1,240 kilowatts of potentially available energy and currently we get only 50 percent of it out. In 2014, the people were a miracle that we could make 40 percent usable.

That strikes me as really high.

That's 818hp from the ICE.

2+% in a year... WoW!

People were rubbishing any claims that power units could produce 1,000hp this year, just like they were rubbishing +900hp the previous year, and +800 the year before that.

godlameroso wrote:People were rubbishing any claims that power units could produce 1,000hp this year, just like they were rubbishing +900hp the previous year, and +800 the year before that.

Well if 818 HP from ICE is true then the whole power unit could actually be close to 1000 Hp at least in tearms of peak power.

AtOmIc wrote:

godlameroso wrote:People were rubbishing any claims that power units could produce 1,000hp this year, just like they were rubbishing +900hp the previous year, and +800 the year before that.

Well if 818 HP from ICE is true then the whole power unit could actually be close to 1000 Hp at least in tearms of peak power.

Knowing what mode the engine is in to get the 50% makes things a bit different.

If that is without any help from the MGUK, then max power is ~980hp.
But if it is in self sustaining mode, with some power feeding from the MGUH to the MGUK then power with the full MGUK power will be ~900hp.

bhall II wrote:I don't really follow PU development. Is this legit?

Andy Cowell wrote:In the fuel are 1,240 kilowatts of potentially available energy and currently we get only 50 percent of it out. In 2014, the people were a miracle that we could make 40 percent usable.

That strikes me as really high.

He would have said fifty just to keep argument simple. Notice he said 45 last year and 40 the year before. I dont think we should take this 50% as exact. Could be 48 in Q.... With 50 maybe on the dyno.. Or 50 is in sights. But either way who so ever reaches 1000hp first will surely announce it!

wuzak wrote:[[...]Knowing what mode the engine is in to get the 50% makes things a bit different.

If that is without any help from the MGUK, then max power is ~980hp.
But if it is in self sustaining mode, with some power feeding from the MGUH to the MGUK then power with the full MGUK power will be ~900hp.

It cannot be without compunding, i.e. self sustaining mode.
It is not possible to get 50% from fuel in a 10'500+ revving engine, without any recovering of at least the blowdown energy.

Extreme thresholds have been reached with Gas and Steam power generators, they are just achieving the 62% LHV efficiency limit for conversion into electricity. With 98% efficient generators, and reusing the hot exhaust gases to convert to power via steam turbines. With almost zero restriction as to the number of stages, turbines and weight. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_cycle

Cowell's words make believe that there is still a huge margin (from 50% to 100%) efficiency. It is not.

PlatinumZealot wrote:

bhall II wrote:I don't really follow PU development. Is this legit?

Andy Cowell wrote:In the fuel are 1,240 kilowatts of potentially available energy and currently we get only 50 percent of it out. In 2014, the people were a miracle that we could make 40 percent usable.

That strikes me as really high.

He would have said fifty just to keep argument simple. Notice he said 45 last year and 40 the year before. I dont think we should take this 50% as exact. Could be 48 in Q.... With 50 maybe on the dyno.. Or 50 is in sights. But either way who so ever reaches 1000hp first will surely announce it!

He actually said 47% last year before the season... which was why I said 2+% in a year...

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/inte ... races.html

So I dont think this is a mere case of keeping it simple.

On another note, if he says that 100 kg/h of fuel is 1240 kW, that means about 44.64 MJ/kg LHV.

bhall II wrote:I don't really follow PU development. Is this legit?

Andy Cowell wrote:In the fuel are 1,240 kilowatts of potentially available energy and currently we get only 50 percent of it out. In 2014, the people were a miracle that we could make 40 percent usable.

That strikes me as really high.

So fuel heat content is 44.6?
Taffin too said our ICE is close to 50%...

Morteza wrote:https://twitter.com/tgruener/status/834436979106394112

More air means leaner running and a higher boost and maybe also a higher (overall)compression ratio.

ENGINE TUNER wrote:

Morteza wrote:https://twitter.com/tgruener/status/834436979106394112

More air means leaner running and a higher boost and maybe also a higher (overall)compression ratio.

Higher boost and higher compression with leaner running.... sounds like a recipe for disaster!

It seems like they might be exceeding the fuel flow limit in that photo.