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FPV GTHO wrote: ↑

12 Nov 2019, 12:58

Closer racing will also open up more strategy options. Track position will be less valuable, so teams will gamble more in the hope of a pay off.

Surely the other way round - closer racing will mean strategy options aren't required - the driver should just overtake the car ahead. That is the point of these changes after all - to promote easy overtaking and thus each race will have lots of overtaking.
The only strategy call will be whether to sit behind the guy ahead until the last lap, and then overtake at the last possible moment so he can't retake the position before the line.

It'll be as dull as ditch water if it transpires that way, of course, and then "the fans" will be crying for changes to make racing more exciting still. Random water sprinklers is my guess for the next "the fans want it so we must do it" proposal from the FIA.

Holm86 wrote: ↑

12 Nov 2019, 15:04

I have always thought it was very narrow minded that FIA, LM and Ross Brawn only looked at the "easier to follow" philosophy.

I would have loved for them to also look at making the cars somewhat harder to drive as well, so it would be easier to follow, but ALSO harder to lead.

I've suggested a few things myself:
[...]

How about just making the rear tyres significantly narrower? That'll make them more prone to losing the back end without any other changes required.

Hipocracy on Ross Brawns part, while he criticizes the 2017 aero rules, he is rather quiet on the tyre size increase which was purely done on aesthetics, and kept it for 2021

The rear should have been sized to the 2016 sizing which was more than adequate

Big tires is good. It means you can trim down the aero, which is good for racing and the economy of smaller teams.

FW17 wrote: ↑

12 Nov 2019, 18:46

Hipocracy on Ross Brawns part, while he criticizes the 2017 aero rules, he is rather quiet on the tyre size increase which was purely done on aesthetics, and kept it for 2021

You make no sense. The aero rules changes sucked, the tire size change didn't.

Just_a_fan wrote: ↑

12 Nov 2019, 18:03

FPV GTHO wrote: ↑

12 Nov 2019, 12:58

Closer racing will also open up more strategy options. Track position will be less valuable, so teams will gamble more in the hope of a pay off.

Surely the other way round - closer racing will mean strategy options aren't required - the driver should just overtake the car ahead. That is the point of these changes after all - to promote easy overtaking and thus each race will have lots of overtaking.
The only strategy call will be whether to sit behind the guy ahead until the last lap, and then overtake at the last possible moment so he can't retake the position before the line.

I dont't agree, there will be an option to do a race with more stops but you have to overtake people. At the moment, the fact you can't overtake leads to races where you go slow, with no risk of being overtaken, and pit once.

browney wrote: ↑

12 Nov 2019, 22:36

I dont't agree, there will be an option to do a race with more stops but you have to overtake people. At the moment, the fact you can't overtake leads to races where you go slow, with no risk of being overtaken, and pit once.

There is still going to be an optimum strategy - one that is quicker just as there is now. Rolling the dice might give you a chance but you have to push the tyres harder etc., so might be no better off than the guy who stays out.

The bigger rear tyres added more drag negating any grip advantage, the big tyres were just Bernie making things look cool without serving any purpose.

I am going to start my comment by acknowledging that what I am about to say is off topic.

It's interesting that people are complaining about certain items in the new regs being too prescriptive, when in fact many of the teams currently share components either made by other competitors or by external suppliers. This leads to cost reductions as well as more development being spent on areas that are more performance relevant - less time/money per pace.

Take Williams as a big example, they spend so much time and money developing components of the car that provide very little benefit that they lose out in areas that matter. I am not saying that specialised development has lead to all of their failings, but it makes sense that wasting time/money on say brake pedals or otherwise will not lead to big increases in performance.

While I look forward to your brief opinions, I have no interest in arguing or having my entire statement picked apart. This is also hypocritical, but can we please get back to the aero thread, or move these convos to the general threads?

P.s Thanks Hollus for addressing the gas-bagging

Just_a_fan wrote: ↑

12 Nov 2019, 18:06

Holm86 wrote: ↑

12 Nov 2019, 15:04

I have always thought it was very narrow minded that FIA, LM and Ross Brawn only looked at the "easier to follow" philosophy.

I would have loved for them to also look at making the cars somewhat harder to drive as well, so it would be easier to follow, but ALSO harder to lead.

I've suggested a few things myself:
[...]

How about just making the rear tyres significantly narrower? That'll make them more prone to losing the back end without any other changes required.

Don't think thats a good idea, you want as much mechanical grip as possible

Holm86 wrote: ↑

13 Nov 2019, 09:41

Just_a_fan wrote: ↑

12 Nov 2019, 18:06

How about just making the rear tyres significantly narrower? That'll make them more prone to losing the back end without any other changes required.

Don't think thats a good idea, you want as much mechanical grip as possible

If you want them tricky to drive then making the rear tyres less effective will do that. Doing lots of other stuff instead to try to make them tricky to drive seems silly when it can be so easily achieved.

Just_a_fan wrote: ↑

13 Nov 2019, 11:01

Holm86 wrote: ↑

13 Nov 2019, 09:41

Just_a_fan wrote: ↑

12 Nov 2019, 18:06

How about just making the rear tyres significantly narrower? That'll make them more prone to losing the back end without any other changes required.

Don't think thats a good idea, you want as much mechanical grip as possible

If you want them tricky to drive then making the rear tyres less effective will do that. Doing lots of other stuff instead to try to make them tricky to drive seems silly when it can be so easily achieved.

I want them to be trickier, not slower. We could just as well go back to bicycle tires and no aero then

Holm86 wrote: ↑

13 Nov 2019, 11:50

Just_a_fan wrote: ↑

13 Nov 2019, 11:01

Holm86 wrote: ↑

13 Nov 2019, 09:41

Don't think thats a good idea, you want as much mechanical grip as possible

If you want them tricky to drive then making the rear tyres less effective will do that. Doing lots of other stuff instead to try to make them tricky to drive seems silly when it can be so easily achieved.

I want them to be trickier, not slower. We could just as well go back to bicycle tires and no aero then

But you want them shorter, so less floor and less downforce = slower.

Just_a_fan wrote: ↑

13 Nov 2019, 13:40

Holm86 wrote: ↑

13 Nov 2019, 11:50

Just_a_fan wrote: ↑

13 Nov 2019, 11:01

If you want them tricky to drive then making the rear tyres less effective will do that. Doing lots of other stuff instead to try to make them tricky to drive seems silly when it can be so easily achieved.

I want them to be trickier, not slower. We could just as well go back to bicycle tires and no aero then

But you want them shorter, so less floor and less downforce = slower.

True, but nothing you couldnt compensate for by making the diffuser and tunnes bigger