F1technical.net

Nando wrote:Not even close to the numbers you lose by having a car not capable of getting any power down to the ground out of corners.

I won´t argue anymore, i suggest every single person to READ THE BASICS ON HOW TO GO FAST AROUND A LAP AND WHAT IS THE MOST IMPORTANT ASPECT OF IT APART FROM HITTING THE BLOODY APEX.

Great minds here for technical aspects but completely lost when it comes to the racing aspect.

Or, it could be that the "great minds" as you put it, all disagreeing with you have a point

NathanOlder wrote:Ok, so we all agree the Ferrari cant get the power down on the exit of a corner yes? and we agree the Mclaren can yes?

YES. I´ve been saying that for 45 pages now. At first people said blablabla.

Then they saw the videos i posted and now it´s gone quiet regarding that aspect.
As it will when someone picks up a book for hotlapping.
(or listens more carefully to their friend who is a national champ)

NathanOlder wrote:pretend the Ferrari had superb front end grip and (for an example, lets say last turn in melbourne) could go through the middle of the corner at 160mph. And lets say the Mclaren has bad Understeer and could only go through there at 145mph

Who would you say will get to the finish line first ?? simple 1 word answer please. Mclaren or Ferrari

The Ferrari would have to be scraped of the wall because the aero-balance would be off the charts.

The mclaren would take a slower entry but get on the power much much earlier and would be quickest at the end of the straight.

Horrible comparison though, should atleast take a corner or numbers that have any resemblance to the real world.

Should also say that i´m assuming you are reversing the aero on the cars meaning:

Ferrari , superior front end, inferior rear end.
Mclaren , superior rear end, inferior front end.

Mclaren would win every time at the end of the straight.

While the Ferrari is busy collecting the rear end, the Mclaren lets all of the 640 horses run freely out of the corner.

you do the math.

hey guys is this really f1TECHNICAL??!!
please raise the level of the discussion!

you have to minimize a function given by the integral of space times the infinitesimal of slowness, the integrand depending in a complex manner from the speed in every single point of the corner so it is just a little bit more complicated than your claims.
Maybe ferrari engineers did not do the best job lapping in 1.26 but for sure your car pace would have been around three minutes!

Nando wrote:Should also say that i´m assuming you are reversing the aero on the cars meaning:

Ferrari , superior front end, inferior rear end.
Mclaren , superior rear end, inferior front end.

Mclaren would win every time at the end of the straight.

That really depends on 1) who's driving 2) how severe the effects are. Both can cause you to end up with a horrible corner exit speed, and a horrible end-of-straight speed.

eurocentric wrote:It's still a dog of an understeery car.

Prove it. So far you have ZERO.

I have proven several times that the aero balance is off.

It has to much front end grip in relation to the rear end.

This is aerodynamic imbalance. This is what Massa is saying.

They need to get more downforce at the rear of the car in order to go faster.

[quote="NandoYES. I´ve been saying that for 45 pages now. At first people said blablabla.
quote]


NO NO NO, Everyone was saying the Ferrari has bad Oversteer aswell as Understeer. Get your facts right. Everyone is laughing at you and Ferrari.

In F1 Corner speed is KING!

beelsebob wrote:

Nando wrote:Should also say that i´m assuming you are reversing the aero on the cars meaning:

Ferrari , superior front end, inferior rear end.
Mclaren , superior rear end, inferior front end.

Mclaren would win every time at the end of the straight.

That really depends on 1) who's driving 2) how severe the effects are. Both can cause you to end up with a horrible corner exit speed, and a horrible end-of-straight speed.

Not really.

Exit speed is more important then entry because it´s the time from the apex to the next braking zone that counts the most.

Not the time to the apex and the feathering the throttle to not hit the wall.

Nando wrote:The mclaren would take a slower entry but get on the power much much earlier and would be quickest at the end of the straight.

A car has to at least point the nose somewhere near the apex if you're going to power out. If you have understeer, that's going to take a while. Getting on the power before your car is pointing in the right direction isn't really wise.

NathanOlder wrote:Everyone is laughing at you and Ferrari.

In F1 Corner speed is KING!

And i´m laughing my ass of at people like you who don´t know a thing when it comes to what is more important.

good entry or good exit.

Nando wrote:

eurocentric wrote:It's still a dog of an understeery car.

Prove it. So far you have ZERO.

I have proven several times that the aero balance is off.

It has to much front end grip in relation to the rear end.

This is aerodynamic imbalance. This is what Massa is saying.

They need to get more downforce at the rear of the car in order to go faster.

Have you been taking lessons from Brian?

raymondu999 wrote:A car has to at least point the nose somewhere near the apex if you're going to power out. If you have understeer, that's going to take a while. Getting on the power before your car is pointing in the right direction isn't really wise.

No you just let go off the gas earlier so you hit the apex, then you plant the throttle.

This is faster then going fast into the apex, then waiting for traction a while until you can go full throttle.

Good exit traction beats good entry traction every time down to the braking zone.

Massa said this TODAY... "and I suffered with oversteer on entry and understeer on exit"

Nando has just been telling me, this is what you want an F1 car to do for fast lap times.

And Nando reckon the Ferrari doesnt Understeer

Nando wrote:

NathanOlder wrote:Everyone is laughing at you and Ferrari.

In F1 Corner speed is KING!

And i´m laughing my ass of at people like you who don´t know a thing when it comes to what is more important.

good entry or good exit.

Both

What it appears is going on here is that you've had some racing experience and been told by someone "just tone down your entry a bit, you'll get a tighter line, get on the accelerator earlier, and get a better exit, that'll work better". This is entirely valid reasoning

What you're missing is that when the car understeers you don't get on the accelerator earlier, you get on it later, because you're spending so long getting the nose of the car into the corner.

In racing style it is often better to sacrifice your corner entry to gain a better exit. This is not equal to "understeering into a corner has no or minimal impact on lap time".

eurocentric wrote:Have you been taking lessons from Brian?

Why are you dodging the question?

PROVE IT!

I bet you have taken lessons from Sandman.

Again, PROVE THE CAR HAS SUFFERS FROM UNDERSTEER!

Nando, Massa said today his Ferrari understeers!!!