F1technical.net

tpe wrote:...PS: Don't take it personnal, OK? I just want to point that sometimes we are not on the same room with other people and we do not know all the details

No problem

I didn't say that TWG is biased but that its members (Ferrari rivals) are guestioning legality of CF ring. I'm not expecting anyone to agree with me or to change opinion because of mine and I expect from others not to force me to change mine. Anyway, there was a lot of things going on with CF ring since its introduction and specially in the previous several days so there was some more material for discussion.

No further comments about the ranting story, you know very well what I mean, I made it clear enough.

Anyway that said, I want to address a couple of your points, the technical ones.

manchild wrote: When they mention in regulations "viewed from the side" I'm sure they don't think about visual glance from FIA steward but on position of inspection/measurement.

No, it’s side view of the wheel, it wouldn't make sense otherwise because other limitations are already set.
That’s the rule about the brake ducts :

11.4 Air ducts :
Air ducts around the front and rear brakes will be considered part of the braking system and shall not protrude beyond :

(Purple in my picture)
- a plane parallel to the ground situated at a distance of 160mm above the horizontal centre line of the wheel ;
- a plane parallel to the ground situated at a distance of 160mm below the horizontal centre line of the wheel ;

(yellow in my picture)
- a vertical plane parallel to the inner face of the wheel rim and displaced from it by 120mm toward the centre line of the car.

(green in my picture)
Furthermore, when viewed from the side the ducts must not protrude forwards beyond the periphery of the tyre or backwards beyond the wheel rim.

All measurements will be made with the wheel held in a vertical position.

[IMG:96:167]http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/3077 ... 8ck.th.jpg[/img]

manchild wrote: Even if Imola version of Filisetti's drawing is a bit inaccurate it is obvious that such new shape can't be glued as old one so gluing sideways causes that ring to "protrude forwards beyond the periphery of the tyre or backwards beyond the wheel rim" (one of those two at least).

Why can’t it be glued as old one ?
[IMG:152:130]http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/5838 ... 6bf.th.jpg[/img]
[IMG:152:167]http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/6512 ... 6ay.th.jpg[/img]

manchild wrote: Weight of the rims isn't specified by FIA regulations as well as inspection of wheels used during the race but FIA regulation clearly mention that ducts are measured after the race so I asked if Ferrari is calling CF ring "duct" how will be FIA able to measure all "ducts" used in race since there is no "Parc Ferme" for wheels.

Any part of the car must respect the rules at any moment during the race and FIA scrutineers can, if they want, check the car and all his parts (also the one used during the race and not mounted on the car during parc fermè) also during the race, no need of Parc Fermè.
As for the rims, I wasn’t referring to minimum weight of the rim, but of the car. If you use 4 rims weighting 4 kg each for the first stint and the car is 600 kg + fuel, and then you fit 3 kg rims at the first stop your car is 596 + fuel, hence you have a 4 kg advantage for the whole stint. Then at the second stop fit again 4 kg rims and you are over minimum again.

Excellent pictures Reca.

The second one explains well how the Imola device was different.

Reca, this time I agree with you 100%

Your pics show duct that doesn't go beyond rim and that is glued to inner side of the rim. When I said that Imola duct can't be glued as old one I had in mind one from Filisetti's drawing and it looks different than one on you pics (essentially, not in detail). So yes, your version can be glued but Filisetti's can't.

I agree about possible manipulation with wheel weight too which can be done by all teams although dimension of the "duct" as specifically defined by FIA is as such at 248F1 is uncontrollable. What I'm trying to say is that wheels can never be illegal because of their weight since only car can be found illegal while "ducts" themselves can be illegal.

With regards to various members' queries about the aerodynamic effects of this rim, it surprises me somewhat that no one with access to Gambit and Fluent has knocked up a rough-and-ready computational model to attempt to answer this.

This is taken from this weeks autosport:

The extensions were alleged by rivals to be in breach of technical regulation that demands wheels are of uniform material.

But the single piece carbon fibre moulding introduced for Imola answered the critism.

Autosport technical consultant Gary Anderson said "The moulding is shaped with a lip rather than a rounded edge and this will help extract the hot brake air to the outside. Its the same principle as the drums that we see covering the discs. You don't want air going inside and spoiling the aerodynamics of the car.

wazojugs wrote:This is taken from this weeks autosport:

The extensions were alleged by rivals to be in breach of technical regulation that demands wheels are of uniform material.

But the single piece carbon fibre moulding introduced for Imola answered the critism.

Autosport technical consultant Gary Anderson said "The moulding is shaped with a lip rather than a rounded edge and this will help extract the hot brake air to the outside. Its the same principle as the drums that we see covering the discs. You don't want air going inside and spoiling the aerodynamics of the car.

So effectively some sort of gurney for the brake duct....

wazojugs wrote:This is taken from this weeks autosport:

The extensions were alleged by rivals to be in breach of technical regulation that demands wheels are of uniform material.

But the single piece carbon fibre moulding introduced for Imola answered the critism.

Autosport technical consultant Gary Anderson said "The moulding is shaped with a lip rather than a rounded edge and this will help extract the hot brake air to the outside. Its the same principle as the drums that we see covering the discs. You don't want air going inside and spoiling the aerodynamics of the car.

I don't know if its taken out of context but those phrases taken together are a non sequitur, they don't add up. What anderson is saying has absolutely nothing to do with the wheels being of non uniform material and hence illegal.

Gary Anderson wrote:But the single piece carbon fibre moulding introduced for Imola answered the critism.

You don't want air going inside and spoiling the aerodynamics of the car.

I'm not sure if I understood "answered the critism" correctly but if he wanted to say that Ferrari silenced the rivals with version from Imola than it is in contradiction with "You don't want air going inside and spoiling the aerodynamics of the car" because there he says that CF ring is there to improve aerodynamic of the car which makes it illegal on 3 counts (wheel material, hub & movable aero bans).

i thought that comment did prove that the rim was illegal during the previous races. looks like the FIA technicians missed that one

More about Toyota's carbon ring can be found here:
viewtopic.php?t=2495

This totally means the rings are legal FINALLY

Tomba wrote:More about Toyota's carbon ring can be found here:
viewtopic.php?t=2495

This totally means the rings are legal FINALLY

The link points to the first page of this topic.I think it's this one:
viewtopic.php?p=27636#27636