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Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 06 Apr 2017, 14:51
by 63l8qrrfy6
kasio wrote: ↑06 Apr 2017, 08:26
Mudflap wrote: ↑05 Apr 2017, 22:48
amho wrote: ↑05 Apr 2017, 22:36
No I didn't used torque and wheel radius method that u mentioned. (U mean this : P=TorquexRpm ,Torque=Fxr)
-----------------------------------------------
I used the following equations:
P=FxV
Where
V as car speed
F=drag force+rolling resistance force
Drag force=0.5xRhoxCdxAxV^2
Rolling resistance=(rollig coefficoint)xMxG
What I said still stands. The only way to calculate the power is to know how the car accelerates against a known load. Not the largest load that it can shift.
well amho tells it sleeps. its a power on wheels. doesnt matter what gearing you use! you need as much power as you need to move trough air with this car at that constant speed. you can use whatever gearing you need it will still need same power.
I agree but you are completely missing the point. The gearing influences the speed the car has when it hits the trap.
If the car exits the corner in 3rd gear and hits the trap at 100 mph then on the second lap exits in 4th and only achieves 90 has it lost power ?
Gearing dictates the tractive force which dictates acceleration which dictates trap speed.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 06 Apr 2017, 15:02
by Dipesh1995
Alonso reckons that they're not lacking in deployment compared to their rivals, they're just lacking raw power from their ICE.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 06 Apr 2017, 16:20
by JuanjoTS
It looks like Honda is not going to change anything.
https://goo.gl/photos/49qrrFkANYpq6wvX8
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 06 Apr 2017, 16:53
by dren
They can change the mapping. It means reliability wise, things aren't bad, too.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 06 Apr 2017, 16:57
by Alonsofor2017
surely the fact theyre early shifting is not helping with energy recovery
also from speculation i would say the engine power is roughly:
ferarri 2017: 985
mercedes 2017: 980
mercedes 2016: 961
renault 2017 : 960 (with good drivability)
ferrari 2016: 954
honda 2016: 919
honda 2017: 915
honda have definetely lost ground
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 06 Apr 2017, 17:51
by FW17
Alonsofor2017 wrote: ↑06 Apr 2017, 16:57
surely the fact theyre early shifting is not helping with energy recovery
also from speculation i would say the engine power is roughly:
ferarri 2017: 985
mercedes 2017: 980
mercedes 2016: 961
renault 2017 : 960 (with good drivability)
ferrari 2016: 954
honda 2016: 919
honda 2017: 915
honda have definetely lost ground
What ever be the number..... in a racing lap
ferarri 2017: 985 for 50 seconds
mercedes 2017: 980 for 50 seconds
mercedes 2016: 961 for 45 seconds
renault 2017 : 960 (with good drivability) for 40 seconds
ferrari 2016: 954 for 40 seconds
honda 2016: 919 for 30 seconds
honda 2017: 915 for ????
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 06 Apr 2017, 17:54
by Andres125sx
May I ask what was your hope at the respect?
In two weeks they can´t introduce any mayor modification. Actually not even in 1-2 months so, as they said theirselves, before Bahrein or Spain there will be no modifications... apart from software/mapping, wich in their case could bring very good results given their perfomance and gearing problems in Melbourne.
Second GP is way way too early, be patient.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 06 Apr 2017, 18:15
by Alonsofor2017
FW17 wrote: ↑06 Apr 2017, 17:51
Alonsofor2017 wrote: ↑06 Apr 2017, 16:57
surely the fact theyre early shifting is not helping with energy recovery
also from speculation i would say the engine power is roughly:
ferarri 2017: 985
mercedes 2017: 980
mercedes 2016: 961
renault 2017 : 960 (with good drivability)
ferrari 2016: 954
honda 2016: 919
honda 2017: 915
honda have definetely lost ground
What ever be the number..... in a racing lap
ferarri 2017: 985 for 50 seconds
mercedes 2017: 980 for 50 seconds
mercedes 2016: 961 for 45 seconds
renault 2017 : 960 (with good drivability) for 40 seconds
ferrari 2016: 954 for 40 seconds
honda 2016: 919 for 30 seconds
honda 2017: 915 for ????
I do believe the energy recovery of the 2016 Honda was thereabouts with the Mercedes but they have lost ground to Mercedes on that front mainly because of the way there having to run there engine Eg shifting early. I don't think the actual 2017 mgu-K is worse than there 2016 one
So probably merc 2016: 50 sec
Merc 2017: 54 sec
Honda 2016: 48 sec
Honda 2017: 45 sec
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 06 Apr 2017, 18:31
by FW17
Alonsofor2017 wrote: ↑06 Apr 2017, 18:15
I do believe the energy recovery of the 2016 Honda was thereabouts with the Mercedes but they have lost ground to Mercedes on that front mainly because of the way there having to run there engine Eg shifting early. I don't think the actual 2017 mgu-K is worse than there 2016 one
So probably merc 2016: 50 sec
Merc 2017: 54 sec
Honda 2016: 48 sec
Honda 2017: 45 sec
Honda does not channel the power directly from MGUH to MGUK, they charge the battery and then run the MGUK. As per rules they can run a max of 4MJ which will be 30 seconds
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 06 Apr 2017, 18:41
by kasio
Andres125sx wrote: ↑06 Apr 2017, 17:54
May I ask what was your hope at the respect?
In two weeks they can´t introduce any mayor modification. Actually not even in 1-2 months so, as they said theirselves, before Bahrein or Spain there will be no modifications... apart from software/mapping, wich in their case could bring very good results given their perfomance and gearing problems in Melbourne.
Second GP is way way too early, be patient.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 06 Apr 2017, 18:45
by Chicane
Few things about engine components should be made clear.
On Thursday The FIA gives out the list containing the number of components used till the previous Grandprix.
On Friday the FIA release the list of including the new components teams will be introducing on the current race weekend.
On Saturday/Sunday FIA releases a further notification if any of the teams end up using additional components over and above those used during Friday.
So in a nutshell we will not know till Friday if any of the teams will be introducing new engine components.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 06 Apr 2017, 18:55
by godlameroso
China is ahead, almost same time zone as Suzuka and Singapore, so technically it is Friday in an hour or two.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 06 Apr 2017, 19:01
by JuanjoTS
Chicane wrote: ↑06 Apr 2017, 18:45
Few things about engine components should be made clear.
On Thursday The FIA gives out the list containing the
number of components used till the previous Grandprix.
On Friday the FIA release the list of
including the new components teams will be introducing on the current race weekend.
On Saturday/Sunday FIA releases a further notification if any of the teams end up using
additional components over and above those used during Friday.
So in a nutshell we will not know till Friday if any of the teams will be introducing new engine components.
Thanks for the info, it's the best news I've ever had.
Post by Andres125sx » 06 Apr 2017, 17:54
May I ask what was your hope at the respect?
In two weeks they can´t introduce any mayor modification. Actually not even in 1-2 months so, as they said theirselves, before Bahrein or Spain there will be no modifications... apart from software/mapping, wich in their case could bring very good results given their perfomance and gearing problems in Melbourne.
Second GP is way way too early, be patient.
I hope they surprise me, see how they boil their blood, see how they take pride, see that they punch the table and say "here we are !!" 4 or 5 races waiting is not acceptable, it is embarrassing. I am disillusioned and I can not hide it, the best news is that today it is not confirmed if there have been changes.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 06 Apr 2017, 19:24
by dren
FW17 wrote: ↑06 Apr 2017, 18:31
Alonsofor2017 wrote: ↑06 Apr 2017, 18:15
I do believe the energy recovery of the 2016 Honda was thereabouts with the Mercedes but they have lost ground to Mercedes on that front mainly because of the way there having to run there engine Eg shifting early. I don't think the actual 2017 mgu-K is worse than there 2016 one
So probably merc 2016: 50 sec
Merc 2017: 54 sec
Honda 2016: 48 sec
Honda 2017: 45 sec
Honda does not channel the power directly from MGUH to MGUK, they charge the battery and then run the MGUK. As per rules they can run a max of 4MJ which will be 30 seconds
You know this for a fact? Surely, every PU manufacturer direct powers the K from the H for much of the lap.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 06 Apr 2017, 19:28
by FW17
dren wrote: ↑06 Apr 2017, 19:24
You know this for a fact? Surely, every PU manufacturer direct powers the K from the H for much of the lap.
You should read Wazari