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Re: 2014 Design
Posted: 10 Dec 2013, 15:14
by turbof1
The "beginplate" (lack of better word) is a nice way of thinking though. You could still use the endplate to divert air away from the tyre, while using beginplates to force air inside.
Still, this solution would still work better in conjunction with a Blanchimont-nose. The beginplates divert air from outside the nose underneat§h, while the nose would block less air coming from in front.
Re: 2014 Design
Posted: 10 Dec 2013, 15:17
by Holm86
turbof1 wrote:The "beginplate" (lack of better word) is a nice way of thinking though. You could still use the endplate to divert air away from the tyre, while using beginplates to force air inside.
Yes precisely.
Re: 2014 Design
Posted: 10 Dec 2013, 15:25
by horse
turbof1 wrote:using beginplates to force air inside.
This is the subtlety, I think, however, that current front end design does not "force" air towards the leading edge of the floor, rather (using vortex generators, turning vanes, barge-board and high nose) more air is drawn (or pulled) to that region of the car.
For example, note that the turning vanes under the nose turn air to the outside because it encourages further entrainment from the front.
Re: 2014 Design
Posted: 10 Dec 2013, 15:27
by turbof1
Would they be allowed to connect such beginplates with the turning vanes underneath the chassis?
Of course, pulled air is indeed better. Note that the teams have to be careful not to raise the pressure underneath the car; that would cause lift underneath the nose and the floor, generally making sure you are going to have a bad time.
Re: 2014 Design
Posted: 10 Dec 2013, 22:40
by NathanOlder
So with the first test only 49 days away, do we expect the cars all the be unveiled at the test ? or will we see cars before then ? surely showing your car earlier will be a bad idea with so many teams possibly having major design differences
Re: 2014 Design
Posted: 10 Dec 2013, 22:48
by SectorOne
With the in/outwash wings. Is it possible to create a hybrid?
So of a height of 10cm (or whatever the regulation states) you go from outwash to inwash?
Re: 2014 Design
Posted: 10 Dec 2013, 23:54
by wesley123
Holm86 wrote:
This is what ive been saying. That the front wing is powerful enough to balance the car. So you can afford to shed some DF on the FW to use it as a flow diverter. But i would still think that you would want more air inwards to get more air to the diffuser. And you could still divert air both inwards and outwards of the tires.
I have replied to that suggestion in another topic(
/viewtopic.php?p=467397), but I'll have a go at it again;
A diffuser/floor doesn't necessarily start working better by sending more air to it.
The current outwash end plates and everything in front of the nose is aimed at one thing; To shield the air from the wheel wake and get it to the back of the car.
Those vortices we saw on the Ferrari's and Red Bull's around the front tire where there to shield the tire air from the normal air coming from the front wing.
The longer pillars/winglets under the nose are there to draw air under the nose/tub and get it away from the wheel.
All these keep the wheel wake away from the floor, which you will lose with the in board end plates. Getting more air to the floor won't overcome this loss.
Re: 2014 Design
Posted: 11 Dec 2013, 11:57
by rjsa
SectorOne wrote:With the in/outwash wings. Is it possible to create a hybrid?
So of a height of 10cm (or whatever the regulation states) you go from outwash to inwash?
You mean like this?
Re: 2014 Design
Posted: 11 Dec 2013, 12:53
by FW17
The front tyre is 270 mm wide, the reduction is by 75 mm, quiet difficult to see the need for inward angle on the end plates.
Re: 2014 Design
Posted: 11 Dec 2013, 13:26
by SectorOne
Re: 2014 Design
Posted: 11 Dec 2013, 15:37
by Schifty
scarbs wrote:I really like the look of shifty’s front end, it’s a possible solution.
It does have downsides however, it loses the endplate’s effect on the tyre wake. Much of the current outwash design and cascades are aimed at reducing the vortices and separated flow around the outer face and top of the front tyre. It’s this flow that upsets rear end aero performance and creates drag in itself.
Secondly ramming the front wing wake in between the front wheels will end up upsetting the flow within the Y250 area, which is the flow that actually reaches the floors leading edge.
IMO the 75mm narrowing of the front wing, it will not end up being hard to twist the wing even tighter outwards, to keep the outwash vortices improving the tyre wake. Secondly the loss of aero at the rear (EBD and beam wing) will end up leaving the front wing more than powerful enough to balance the car. Thus more of its shape can be used for flow control rather than DF.
Thank for the comment, i think aerodynasmism still a thing we need to keep it simple and simple idea have good effect. My design is not perfect and i have no knowledge about air flowing etc. Making a big brain storming about finding THE solution is not the solution
.
Re: 2014 Design
Posted: 13 Dec 2013, 03:36
by atanatizante
Has someone thought about how to divert the airflow not under but AROUND the nose in order to point the airflow towards the tea-tray area?
I don`t have drawing skills but maybe someone could help me with this by telling that you must draw a nose with side bulges which starts with a slope and ends with a curved ramp which goes underneath the nose ...
Re: 2014 Design
Posted: 13 Dec 2013, 11:12
by Giando
atanatizante wrote:Has someone thought about how to divert the airflow not under but AROUND the nose in order to point the airflow towards the tea-tray area?
I don`t have drawing skills but maybe someone could help me with this by telling that you must draw a nose with side bulges which starts with a slope and ends with a curved ramp which goes underneath the nose ...
I'm not really sure i have understood exactly what you mean, but it shouldn't be possible because of the rules about the bodywork limitations under and around the nose... If you could draw up just a draft scheme - don't be shy! - we could help better!
Re: 2014 Design
Posted: 13 Dec 2013, 14:01
by atanatizante
Giando wrote: ...
I'm not really sure i have understood exactly what you mean, but it shouldn't be possible because of the rules about the bodywork limitations under and around the nose... If you could draw up just a draft scheme - don't be shy! - we could help better!
@Giando :
Yeah, man a was trying but it's impossible to see something from the drawing I made ...
Just think about FIA cameras that are placed on each side of the nose cone.
Now imagine that those camera has a curved shape on the side (which is not attached to the nose cone) and on the front side of them there is a slope and backwards a curved ramp going towards underneath the nose cone ...
But I understood that this design could be hampered by the fact that FIA cameras now has to be placed in a fixed position, unfortunately ...
Re: 2014 Design
Posted: 13 Dec 2013, 14:09
by scarbs
Perhaps you mean a narrow nose with "r" shaped front wing pillars spaced from it acting as turning vanes?