F1technical.net

It would be a major disadvantage to make the turbo integral to the block as you wouldn't be be able to replace one without the other. If you had a turbo failure you would loose the ice as well. Same goes for the MGUK
Also the turbo needs to be AV mounted to avoid the engine vibrations transferring and affecting the shaft dynamics.

So Scarbs takes risks and gives us really interesting hints... gets minimally vulnerable kind of way... and we're like being way too picky.

This type of journalism is, must be, about serious investigation and probabilities, paddock rumours and so. It shouldn't be about pure absolute truths. This axial turbo thing is one of the wildest, coolest things come out this season

On thing strikes me as odd in the racecar engineering article and in some comments here:
I've only ever applied heat insulation with a gold foil layer (usually on a fibreglass layer with some highly temperature resistant adhesive) to keep it cool or reflect most of the heat of the surrounding parts.
Thus I would think the pipe with the gold foil on it is the pipe downstream the intercooler rather than upstream. Any thoughts on that?
This pipe seems to go behind the oil tank on the pictures. I'm not quite sure that what seems to be a plenum chamber is actually just that. It might just be for providing cooling air to the right places or something. Otherwise the positioning of either of the two big pipes would seem very odd indeed for achieving equal amounts of air for each cylinder. Also, there's a lot of mechanical parts in that housing that I would not necessarily put on the inside of the intake path as they will have some influence on the dynamic flow characteristics. Might be wrong on that one. Definitely an interesting setup and I'm very much looking forward to more images (Scarbs, would you mind arriving at a grand prix on a wednesday again to snoop a little bit? )

stevesingo wrote:

radosav wrote:Alonso onboard during race .
http://rutube.ru/video/d1b7371c625e5362 ... f11478039/

I have an interesting observation regarding the PU performance on the straight.

At 10:00 ALO enters the back straight and accelerates through the gears. When he selects 8th at 297kph the telemetry is still showing wide open throttle (WOT) and the car continues to accelerate up to 304kph. Then at 10:13, still showing WOT the car loses speed down to 298kph before ALO lifts off WOT.

Could this be the ES SOC being fully depleted? Any thoughts?

ERS Harvesting.

I can't see why they would harvest (outside of MGU-H) at WOT, it would be wasteful of fuel in the extreme.

How would they know when to harvest under WOT conditions, certain SOC, certain road speed, certain time at WOT?

With the turbine that far back is it possible to flip the volute? Would there be any benefit to this?

stevesingo wrote:I can't see why they would harvest (outside of MGU-H) at WOT, it would be wasteful of fuel in the extreme.

How would they know when to harvest under WOT conditions, certain SOC, certain road speed, certain time at WOT?

ERS is usually deplete at the end of straights, and therefore harvesting is needed to ensure there is electrical power to accelerate out of the corner right after. This is especially true for a track like Bahrain where a long straight is followed by a major acceleration zone. The ERS may not be able to harvest enough energy under braking alone to ensure enough electrical energy for the acceleration right after, and therefore some harvesting is done just before the braking. That is the reason for the flashing red light, which is to inform the driver behind that the car is harvesting and might slow down even though its driver is not braking.

As for how they know when to harvest, I imagine each team has complicated maps tailored for each circuit on where to harvest and where to use the energy. They do this so they can get away with the smallest and lightest Energy Store as they can, so they end up not having to store excess energy and save weight. Those batteries are heavy.

Advino116 wrote:

stevesingo wrote:I can't see why they would harvest (outside of MGU-H) at WOT, it would be wasteful of fuel in the extreme.

How would they know when to harvest under WOT conditions, certain SOC, certain road speed, certain time at WOT?

ERS is usually deplete at the end of straights, and therefore harvesting is needed to ensure there is electrical power to accelerate out of the corner right after. This is especially true for a track like Bahrain where a long straight is followed by a major acceleration zone. The ERS may not be able to harvest enough energy under braking alone to ensure enough electrical energy for the acceleration right after, and therefore some harvesting is done just before the braking. That is the reason for the flashing red light, which is to inform the driver behind that the car is harvesting and might slow down even though its driver is not braking.

As for how they know when to harvest, I imagine each team has complicated maps tailored for each circuit on where to harvest and where to use the energy. They do this so they can get away with the smallest and lightest Energy Store as they can, so they end up not having to store excess energy and save weight. Those batteries are heavy.

Those batteries have a minimum weight making the second point moot. I am pretty sure that the flashing red light is actually to tell the drivers behind that the driver is actually braking and has nothing to do with harvesting. Can anybody with the right knowledge confirm or deny the bit about the brake/ERS light?

trinidefender wrote: Can anybody with the right knowledge confirm or deny the bit about the brake/ERS light?

Not sure what the right knowledge is but it's been mentioned by Steve Matchett on NBCSN that's exactly what they do, since there is over a G of braking induced while harvesting.

The rain light flashes when the ERS is harvesting, even with their foot flat to the floor. I'm certain it doesn't flash when they are on the brakes.

TAG wrote:

trinidefender wrote: Can anybody with the right knowledge confirm or deny the bit about the brake/ERS light?

Not sure what the right knowledge is but it's been mentioned by Steve Matchett on NBCSN that's exactly what they do, since there is over a G of braking induced while harvesting.

Martin Brundle on Sky said the same.

trinidefender wrote: Those batteries have a minimum weight making the second point moot.

Ah yes forgot about that. Thanks for correcting

Todays Omnicorse reports that there was Mclaren Honda technical sumit yesterday in Sakura to define lines of development for Barcelona and ongoing season. They say that compressor inside V is actually centrifugal, its too small and temperatures inside are to high to manage various electrical problems they are encountering and that MGUH cant fully charge, similar problem to last years Ferrari solution.

They also mention that engineers at Woking are willing to ease on package tightness for extra cooling required for more power to be available. So therefore in Barcelona there will come bigger ERS radiators and intercooler.

Edit: Interesting

And did you notice how huge the exhaust pipe is just behind the engine? might be a hint that the turbine is axial like the honeywell dual boost CT in which the turbine has a big exit...

And I'm still wondering what are the purposes for placing the compressor in the Vee... the engine doesnt seem to be more compact that the Merc; there is no compressor in front of the V6 but there stands the oil tank and the thick charge air ducts so that must be atleast as 'cumbersome' as the Merc layout.
And that way, the compressor si placed further from the intercooler and is closer to the turbine and angine's heat... aswell as the MGUH.
So why didnt they follw the Merc route which offers great compacity, shorter pipework, heat management..?

ferkan wrote:Todays Omnicorse reports that there was Mclaren Honda technical sumit yesterday in Sakura to define lines of development for Barcelona and ongoing season. They say that compressor inside V is actually centrifugal, its too small and temperatures inside are to high to manage various electrical problems they are encountering and that MGUH cant fully charge, similar problem to last years Ferrari solution.

They also mention that engineers at Woking are willing to ease on package tightness for extra cooling required for more power to be available. So therefore in Barcelona there will come bigger ERS radiators and intercooler.

If that's true, it is worrying, but how can Omnicorse be so well informed? I doubt anyone in that meeting would spread that kind of information, unless it suits McL-H for their own purpose.