Honda's CEO and Board have decided to take a new path for the company. No more doing everything in house but still will not buy the tech.Their plan now is to partner with the best in each field.So sharing ideas.They started this new company plan by joining GM with the future 2020 Fuel Cell and Hitachi with future EV.
So Honda and MB are in talks in sharing ideas on the PU.(to share cost to get it on the public road faster)
Source?
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 25 Apr 2017, 18:06
by Sasha
^
This is related to the rumors about the Honda PU.
Honda's CEO and Board have decided to take a new path for the company. No more doing everything in house but still will not buy the tech.Their plan now is to partner with the best in each field.So sharing ideas.They started this new company plan by joining GM with the future 2020 Fuel Cell and Hitachi with future EV.
So Honda and MB are in talks in sharing ideas on the PU.(to share cost to get it on the public road faster)
Sources have revealed that Honda has recently begun discussions with Mercedes about a plan for the German car manufacturer to provide consultancy assistance to help it make rapid progress with its power unit.
Although it is understood the specifics of the deal have yet to be signed off, the main focus could be on help with the electronic and hybrid area of the power unit.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 25 Apr 2017, 18:40
by nzjrs
OK. Didn't realise there was any life left in this horse.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 25 Apr 2017, 21:40
by PlatinumZealot
I think it will only go as far as combustion software - which Honda will pay for. They will not show them anything.
They only need to stop interfering on normal engineering process with their development restrictions. Then Honda would solve all their problems by theirselves.
No need to give them any unfair advantage, as people is wildly speculating around here , only let them do their job, unlike this past two seasons, or this one with allocation restrictions.
Honda is MUCH better at their job than FIA or the Strategy Group at theirs, they only need these bunch of bastards to stop tying Honda´s hands with development restrictions
If they want to limit costs, start limiting aero wich currently is free and astronomically expensive (and also the reason for limited overtaking), but the PU is the core of any motorsport and should be the last aspect to be restricted
The other manufacturers are stuck with the same restrictions but have made better progress.
And, as we have seen the past two seasons, Honda and McLaren haven't been shy at exceeding the year's allocation for power unit components.
Mercedes has started V6 Hybrid development in 2010, Ferrari and Renault in 2011 and Honda in 2014....this move is ok.
So, because Honda entered F1 before they were ready they get special assistance?
I think it will only go as far as combustion software - which Honda will pay for. They will not show them anything.
Combustion software? As in tuning parameters? Or hybrid management software?
If they are getting software help I'm assuming they are already using (or recently switched to) the same software as merc. I think both already used CATIA for CAD modeling, but I have no idea what Merc uses for CFD,combustion, mechatronics and multiphysics stuff (Remembering DS software is notoriously bitchy about how it plays with others...even in its own camp!)
On a side note. Friend of mine works at a place that already do components for both MacHonda and the P1 Roadcars. Boss is ex Mercedes F1 veteran.
I remember two occasions when I was testing tires on a certain SUV-type vehicle and the powdered-metal connecting rods found their way through the side of the block. This caused a water leak, among other things...
I remember two occasions when I was testing tires on a certain SUV-type vehicle and the powdered-metal connecting rods found their way through the side of the block. This caused a water leak, among other things...
I imagine that was the least of your problems at the time.
I think it will only go as far as combustion software - which Honda will pay for. They will not show them anything.
Combustion software? As in tuning parameters? Or hybrid management software?
Research and development. Tbink of it as a wind tunnel upgrade or a custom program for your CFD software. Alot of the time software limiyations can force you to make assumptions or got trial and error in your lab scale stuff..
With the right software Honda would be able to properly analyse the details of their combustion problems and fix it by them selves i suspect.
I think it will only go as far as combustion software - which Honda will pay for. They will not show them anything.
Combustion software? As in tuning parameters? Or hybrid management software?
Research and development. Tbink of it as a wind tunnel upgrade or a custom program for your CFD software. Alot of the time software limiyations can force you to make assumptions or got trial and error in your lab scale stuff..
With the right software Honda would be able to properly analyse the details of their combustion problems and fix it by them selves i suspect.
Better custom meshes for more accurate chamber modeling perhaps? I know that is one of the biggest KIVA limitations when it comes to valve angle and port design and turbulence modeling. Although I'm sure whatever they're using is far more advanced than that, and probably a custom program.
Getting good correlation in your combustion CFD can take a while, and that's if you have good validations(my specialty), good programmers to define the meshes, and good methodology.
Formula 1's Strategy Group is set to face calls on whether it should intervene to help Honda make better progress, on the back of the Japanese manufacturer's difficult start to the 2017 season.
They only need to stop interfering on normal engineering process with their development restrictions. Then Honda would solve all their problems by theirselves.
No need to give them any unfair advantage, as people is wildly speculating around here , only let them do their job, unlike this past two seasons, or this one with allocation restrictions.
Honda is MUCH better at their job than FIA or the Strategy Group at theirs, they only need these bunch of bastards to stop tying Honda´s hands with development restrictions
If they want to limit costs, start limiting aero wich currently is free and astronomically expensive (and also the reason for limited overtaking), but the PU is the core of any motorsport and should be the last aspect to be restricted
The other manufacturers are stuck with the same restrictions but have made better progress.
The other manufacturers followed the normal learnign curve when you develop a new concept, while Honda joined the race later, so they were forced to join a race where their competitors had an advantage in that learning curve
Or in other words, Honda was forced to make his learning curve stepper to catch up their competitors. Trying to reduce the normal learning process can easily bring unintended consequences and become a complete disaster. IMO that´s what happened in 2015, and also now in 2017. Hopefully 2017 PU problems can be solved and then they can really make a jump forward onto their learning curve, but we can´t ignore Honda learning process is being shorter and a lot more demanding when compared to the other manufacturers
, only let them do their job, unlike this past two seasons, or this one with allocation restrictions.
