F1technical.net

daniellammers wrote: ↑

28 Apr 2017, 20:30

harjan wrote: ↑

28 Apr 2017, 18:03

Honda is ready to supply up to 3 teams in 2018. Brilliant move by McLaren- the more teams with a Honda engine the better their relative performance. They should offer it for free to the entire grid!

Keeping in mind McLaren blocked Honda from supplying Red Bull with engines because then the advantage of being the only team with Honda engines would be gone. They're really thinking differently now. Could be because RB is a top team though.

That's exactly why Ron did it. Mercedes said no to RB,Ferrari said no to RB so Ron did the same.

Posturing and keeping an advantage over a rival. And with the way Red Bull were snapping up McLarens partners it was never going to be anything but a big fat no.

It is about time this thread is shot.
It has become untenable. It has been shivering nervously on the ground for too long now.

Mods... Kill it.

What implications do you think has that the McHonda engine works about 600 rpm above Mercedes and Ferrari?

https://goo.gl/photos/pgkrCD7zXyhdVG19A

harjan wrote: ↑

28 Apr 2017, 18:03

Honda is ready to supply up to 3 teams in 2018. Brilliant move by McLaren- the more teams with a Honda engine the better their relative performance. They should offer it for free to the entire grid!

If they sell their engine to half of the grid they stand a good chance of running in the mid-field !

JuanjoTS wrote: ↑

29 Apr 2017, 00:17

What implications do you think has that the McHonda engine works about 600 rpm above Mercedes and Ferrari?

https://goo.gl/photos/pgkrCD7zXyhdVG19A

It can mean that when you up-shift you are still above a resonant frequency.

JuanjoTS wrote: ↑

29 Apr 2017, 00:17

What implications do you think has that the McHonda engine works about 600 rpm above Mercedes and Ferrari?

https://goo.gl/photos/pgkrCD7zXyhdVG19A

Well, for same speed, higher revs means shorter gearing which is unsurprising when running with a power deficit. If you watched a whole lap and that's the highest either engine revs around a lap then the implication is different. That would imply something combustion or vibration related based on anecdotal recollection of honda comments.

The FIA thinks they have reached engine convergence.

The agreement to only cover the top three manufacturers means there is no scope for any freeing up of the rules to help Honda out – with the Japanese manufacturer behind the others.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/fia- ... 3s-899249/

For the first races this year, the McHondas were upshifting impossibly late so that almost at all times the revs stayed above 11000, even after the upshift. Only in the occasional freak corner combination would you see anything else.
The reason for the high revs was most likely to avoid resonances but it must have cost them a lot in terms of power and heat production.
This video from yesterday:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4o-V8uVtooE
shows Vandoorne often hitting 108xx and even 107xx rpm after upshifts. Still higher than the rest, but less extreme than before. Probably they found something in the Bahrain test that allows them to run closer to the engine killer (but otherwise optimal!) rev range. Caveat: he might have been in a detuned engine mode, because his speed seemed to max out at 306km/h in a straight with DRS on.
If they can do this in the race, I'd expect improved engine performance (also hinted by Alonso posting mid-field FP2 times in this power sensitive track).
It will be interesting to see where they are (and how they gear it!) once they can run in the optimal rev range like everyone else.

SkySports (by Crofty) just mentioned that Hasegawa said last night that a upgraded PU will debute in Spain.

BosF1 wrote: ↑

29 Apr 2017, 11:24

SkySports (by Crofty) just mentioned that Hasegawa said last night that a upgraded PU will debute in Spain.

I hope this is true

proteus wrote: ↑

28 Apr 2017, 13:00

Andres125sx wrote: ↑

28 Apr 2017, 12:56

Jef Patat wrote: ↑

28 Apr 2017, 12:00

But you can improve the most and still be at the back. Depends on the starting point.

The starting point was set in 2015, so once we all know how low it was, what do you think should be the target for 2016 and 2017 seasons? Improving the most , constantly, until they reach the top. And that´s what they did in 2016. Now in 2017 we still need some more patience before judging

I can´t wait for the mkII 2017 PU, I´m not expecting they will sudenly fight with Ferrari, but I think they should become constant Q3 cars, and once they can compete with the new PU performing as it should, then they´ll be able to develop the new concept further to hopefully make a very good step forward in perfomance for mkIII PU, and who knows how they will perform then, because the chassis is receiving more and more praises each GP so it does look very good.

If Honda manage to solve this early problems and start performing decently with the revised PU, I´m still optimistic about McHonda

It all smells like 2015 all over again for me. I might be very pessimistic and gloomy, but i just dont believe them anymore.

May you please source me any statement after 2015 wich makes you think they don´t deserve your confidence anymore?

Afer 2015 they´ve been very prudent with their statements, they´ve never said they´ll fight for podiums at this part of the season, so I´m surprised reading you just don´t believe them anymore. The media is a different matter tough, they continue their usual sensationalistic route trying to make news from anything

daniellammers wrote: ↑

28 Apr 2017, 20:30

harjan wrote: ↑

28 Apr 2017, 18:03

Honda is ready to supply up to 3 teams in 2018. Brilliant move by McLaren- the more teams with a Honda engine the better their relative performance. They should offer it for free to the entire grid!

Keeping in mind McLaren blocked Honda from supplying Red Bull with engines because then the advantage of being the only team with Honda engines would be gone. They're really thinking differently now. Could be because RB is a top team though.

Could be?

There´s only one reason for Mclaren to stop using Mercedes PUs, they were not the works team for that PU so they will never receive exactly same PU and will always suffer a PU handicap as the PU is not designed for their car.

McLaren must be the works team for the PU manufacturer they use, otherwise their chances to fight for titles are drastically reduced, so it would be utter nosense to allow Honda to supply RBR and give them the chance to beat you with same PU. If that happens Honda would start considering RBR as their works team, so McLaren would be exactly in same situation they were back in 2014, but with Honda instead of Mercedes

I´d bet veto power for McLaren before Honda supply any other team must be clause #1 in McLaren-Honda contract. Otherwise moving from Mercedes PUs would be absurd

Nickel wrote: ↑

29 Apr 2017, 05:59

JuanjoTS wrote: ↑

29 Apr 2017, 00:17

What implications do you think has that the McHonda engine works about 600 rpm above Mercedes and Ferrari?

https://goo.gl/photos/pgkrCD7zXyhdVG19A

Well, for same speed, higher revs means shorter gearing which is unsurprising when running with a power deficit. If you watched a whole lap and that's the highest either engine revs around a lap then the implication is different. That would imply something combustion or vibration related based on anecdotal recollection of honda comments.

I think the most possible implications for now is that they are running with a power deficit, based on the data at F1 App, this year the #MCL32 is able to throttle better compared to the previous one.

By https://sportiva.shueisha.co.jp/clm/mot ... ndex_2.php

Honda deficit:

"Mercedes AMG has improved the output by 20 horsepower since last year.Ferrari has been dedicated to Mercedes AMG by 10 to 15 horsepower at the end of last year but has pulled out a lot of engineers from Mercedes AMG Sometimes this year it is almost in line with Mercedes AMG.The difference between Renault and Ferrari is about 30 horsepower at the end of last year and Honda was even 20 to 30 horsepower from there. "

A power unit deficitl explains as follows. In other words, there is a difference of 70 to 80 horsepower between the current Mercedes AMG and Honda on an approximate basis. The reporter is guessing it

Future update:

"which is looking pretty (achievement) on the bench is coming out, I think that if we can introduce the battle in the near future, as soon as preparation is ready, I would like to put in the next race, for now It is not "(general manager Hasegawa)
At that time ICE's update will be the target of immediate goal at the 6th round · the Monaco Grand Prix or the 7th Grand Prix · Canada Grand Prix, but with this update it is difficult to shorten the difference with rivals, a team official said, "In the first update It is at best not better to recover to the extent that it is slightly higher than last year. " In other words, there is still a difference of about 60 horsepower with Mercedes AMG. [Here is supposed the first update will put the Honda on pair with Mercedes 2016 PU]

The help of mercedes a honda is false:

Nonetheless, regarding rumors that asking Mercedes AMG for consultation as reported in part, "There is no such thing, there is nothing to say about a supposition's story," general manager Hasegawa denied all .

McLaren-Peugeot = McLaren Honda = Pathetic.