F1technical.net

Singabule wrote:You now what? It is more than likely merc has dual anchor TJI, imagine that vertical jets should be not a problem, and the big problem is the horizontal and diagonal one, since the length of jets should cover 80 mm of bore, and if this True, first anchor is ignited in 70 degree BTDC, and the second one in 35. Just WOW! How can they avoid detonation?!!!

They must have incredible timing control, one small misstep and it's Sepang all over again. It would take incredible control to able to "set up" you peak pressure environment.

Are you suggesting that it's common practice to use multiple injections per engine cycle in order to "set up" an ideal combustion environment? Then the latency and performance of the fuel injectors becomes a critical element. If Ferrari just got their hands on this tech how far is Renault and Honda behind in injector technology by comparison?

godlameroso wrote:

Singabule wrote:You now what? It is more than likely merc has dual anchor TJI, imagine that vertical jets should be not a problem, and the big problem is the horizontal and diagonal one, since the length of jets should cover 80 mm of bore, and if this True, first anchor is ignited in 70 degree BTDC, and the second one in 35. Just WOW! How can they avoid detonation?!!!

They must have incredible timing control, one small misstep and it's Sepang all over again. It would take incredible control to able to "set up" you peak pressure environment.

Are you suggesting that it's common practice to use multiple injections per engine cycle in order to "set up" an ideal combustion environment? Then the latency and performance of the fuel injectors becomes a critical element. If Ferrari just got their hands on this tech how far is Renault and Honda behind in injector technology by comparison?

Yup, i remember someone crop rosberg face in the blowing merc..
Clue: twin scroll.
I think renault not using it, and i think honda use it. This could explain their problem with vibration and drivability.
About how far.. Merc is on the moon with saturn v and j2 engine, Ferrari on the moon's orbit with similar engine, renault is launched successfully with N1 rocket, and honda trying to create their own saturn rocket inhouse, with improved j2x engine, straight from drawing without testing and experience.

Singabule wrote: ↑

18 Mar 2017, 15:05

You now what? It is more than likely merc has dual anchor TJI, imagine that vertical jets should be not a problem, and the big problem is the horizontal and diagonal one, since the length of jets should cover 80 mm of bore, and if this True, first anchor is ignited in 70 degree BTDC, and the second one in 35. Just WOW! How can they avoid detonation?!!!

Mercedes may have something like the "dual anchor" TJI, but I wouldn't place a bet on it.

The system that Ferrari are set to introduce this year was developed by one of its suppliers - Mahle. Not sure if Mercedes have access to the technology.

That's not to say that they haven't developed something similar in-house.

Singabule wrote: ↑

18 Mar 2017, 17:24

Clue: twin scroll.
I think renault not using it, and i think honda use it. This could explain their problem with vibration and drivability.

As in twin scroll turbine?

I believe that Ferrari and Mercedes both use twin scroll.

wuzak wrote: ↑

19 Mar 2017, 02:27

Singabule wrote: ↑

18 Mar 2017, 17:24

Clue: twin scroll.
I think renault not using it, and i think honda use it. This could explain their problem with vibration and drivability.

As in twin scroll turbine?

I believe that Ferrari and Mercedes both use twin scroll.

Nope, 'twin scroll' jets chamber.

wuzak wrote: ↑

19 Mar 2017, 02:26

Singabule wrote: ↑

18 Mar 2017, 15:05

You now what? It is more than likely merc has dual anchor TJI, imagine that vertical jets should be not a problem, and the big problem is the horizontal and diagonal one, since the length of jets should cover 80 mm of bore, and if this True, first anchor is ignited in 70 degree BTDC, and the second one in 35. Just WOW! How can they avoid detonation?!!!

Mercedes may have something like the "dual anchor" TJI, but I wouldn't place a bet on it.

The system that Ferrari are set to introduce this year was developed by one of its suppliers - Mahle. Not sure if Mercedes have access to the technology.

That's not to say that they haven't developed something similar in-house.

We will see that tech in dan spec 2 merc 2017PU i think. There is no smoke without fire. It is just me or somebody suspect merc and mahle share common technical knowledge

Surley Mahle sign NDA with both manufacturers if are there any colaboration on that front.

2017 Power Units comparison



https://translate.google.com/translate? ... zing.eu%2F

Made up rubbish. That would include KERS assistance for a start so no way would there be that disparity low down, nor would they follow the same gradient.

hmm. Ferrari the most powerful eh?

CriXus wrote: ↑

22 Mar 2017, 13:26

2017 Power Units comparison

https://i.imgur.com/iy04cJY.jpg

https://translate.google.com/translate? ... zing.eu%2F

Where in flying Hades does this data come from?

Top speed analysis referenced to engine speed. The rest is creative interpretation.

So I'm assuming that chart calculates for each teams differing drag coefficients, corner exit speed, MGU assistance, fuel loads and overall vehicle mass yes?

J.A.W. wrote: ↑

18 Mar 2017, 08:39

godlameroso wrote:Close is not the same as equal to. Immediately after TDC is not the same as exactly at TDC.

http://performancetrends.com/Definition ... re-Lrg.gif

Now kindly present a 'blown' engine graph, for a more realistic view..

There isn't much difference save for numerical values, the curves would be roughly the same.

Singabule wrote: ↑

19 Mar 2017, 07:35

wuzak wrote: ↑

19 Mar 2017, 02:26

Singabule wrote: ↑

18 Mar 2017, 15:05

You now what? It is more than likely merc has dual anchor TJI, imagine that vertical jets should be not a problem, and the big problem is the horizontal and diagonal one, since the length of jets should cover 80 mm of bore, and if this True, first anchor is ignited in 70 degree BTDC, and the second one in 35. Just WOW! How can they avoid detonation?!!!

Mercedes may have something like the "dual anchor" TJI, but I wouldn't place a bet on it.

The system that Ferrari are set to introduce this year was developed by one of its suppliers - Mahle. Not sure if Mercedes have access to the technology.

That's not to say that they haven't developed something similar in-house.

We will see that tech in dan spec 2 merc 2017PU i think. There is no smoke without fire. It is just me or somebody suspect merc and mahle share common technical knowledge

Both have HQ in Stuttgart and both have powertrain technical centres in Northampton. Have a guess !