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Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 30 Apr 2017, 17:26
by etusch
Bottas faster even Vettel used drs and all the teams lower than 310 kph except merc and ferrari engine users
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 30 Apr 2017, 17:30
by proteus
That speed trap data is just horrible. 10 kmh slower than the second to last in that sheet and 36 to the quickest...
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 30 Apr 2017, 17:39
by etusch
proteus wrote: ↑30 Apr 2017, 17:30
That speed trap data is just horrible. 10 kmh slower than the second to last in that sheet and 36 to the quickest...
McLaren also 10 kph slower from 3rd fastest teams max speed. It is strange that first two teams pace and max speed here. Verstappen far away from ham. We didn't see this kind of gap at the races before in this season
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 30 Apr 2017, 22:10
by loner
they didn't even debut the 2017 PU , this Mercedes layout is the hardest but the question is : is it really worth it since Ferrari doing so great so far ?! however i believe its the revised head and pistons that holding them more than making the shaft work flawlessly
frankly i don't buy ALO retirement today it seems like he won't race again until they give him the 2017 PU
at least the first updated one which they claim on par with Mercedes 2016 one.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 30 Apr 2017, 23:12
by etusch
loner wrote: ↑30 Apr 2017, 22:10
they didn't even debut the 2017 PU , this Mercedes layout is the hardest but the question is : is it really worth it since Ferrari doing so great so far ?! however i believe its the revised head and pistons that holding them more than making the shaft work flawlessly
frankly i don't buy ALO retirement today it seems like he won't race again until they give him the 2017 PU
at least the first updated one which they claim on par with Mercedes 2016 one.
I also think that he withdraw race himself. İf he were come pitlane they will restart the engine and he can go on but he didn't.I am sure he does this because of team management. If there were Dennis he can not act like this. I am Alonso fan but I don't accept his behavour. Any team can be good without him. Any team can find good drivers and noone miss him if he keep acting like this. This is not samurai's way.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 01 May 2017, 00:30
by ronanharris09
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 01 May 2017, 01:55
by Del Boy
harjan wrote: ↑30 Apr 2017, 00:03
ESPImperium wrote: ↑29 Apr 2017, 23:21
With all this lack of ERS, the tyres are not getting stressed due to lack of downforce from lack of power. Again cyclic as a package.
Could you clarify this please? 1. Until now I've only heard that they lack ICE performance- but also ERS? 2. Do you mean tires not being stressed because they run lower downforce levels? If they do run lower df levels then yes you can expect them to make 'exponential' gains if the performance goes up. But otherwise there's no reason to believe a more powerful engine would stress the tires more- they're all grip limited.
As for Alonso's 2.5 sec number. You can bet that it's fairly accurate, it's most likely a McLaren engineer that did that calculation. However.. It's only 80% of the story. Because IF they lack cornering exit speed (lower apex speed or exit speed as a result from suspension or downforce) that speed difference also adds up over the entire following straight.
Whatever happens this Honda project is doomed. Let's say that they'll find the right direction and come to Merc 2016 levels in 2017. Then it will take another 1-2 yrs before they're on par with the rest. McLaren will be long gone to another supplier and we'll have a different engine format looming around the corner. So Honda should have stuck with their 2016 layout and work on evolution vs revolution. Just like Renault and Ferrari have done.
The original post is correct! The ICE is not the only problem. You have to go back to 2014 and the rules about how the MGUK is powered 2MJ can be harvested per lap but 4 MJ can be deployed from the ES. Howver, the MGUH can power the MGUK directly (bypassing the ES) but that means the ICE and turbocharger are self sustaining boost pressure and generating enough electrical power for the MGUK through most of the lap relying on ES only when the ICE-TC needs to be keep spooled up. It's purposely not called an engine because it's a power unit, the ICE, TC, MGUH and MGUK are the power unit. Power and drag go hand in hand, but so does downforce and drag. It all equals lap time.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 01 May 2017, 04:04
by godlameroso
What do you think about burning oil in the exhaust? Maybe as a way to keep the exhaust gases hotter than they would be due to the air diluted nature of the combustion process? Somewhat like an afterburner in a jet turbine burns fuel post turbine to extract extra work from the engine, in the same vain one could burn oil in the exhaust manifold to increase exhaust heat, and thus energy that can be harvested from the turbine.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 01 May 2017, 09:37
by kasio
godlameroso wrote: ↑01 May 2017, 04:04
What do you think about burning oil in the exhaust? Maybe as a way to keep the exhaust gases hotter than they would be due to the air diluted nature of the combustion process? Somewhat like an afterburner in a jet turbine burns fuel post turbine to extract extra work from the engine, in the same vain one could burn oil in the exhaust manifold to increase exhaust heat, and thus energy that can be harvested from the turbine.
it was addressed by fia. by controlling oil levels and some more stuff. sorry i do not remember exactly.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 01 May 2017, 10:15
by gruntguru
Burning anything in the exhaust is far less effective than burning it in the cylinder.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 01 May 2017, 10:52
by Singabule
2016 engine has COG problem so that even though they produce same power as Mercedes, they cant beat it. Any clarification on ERS system problem?
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 01 May 2017, 11:00
by JonoNic
gruntguru wrote:Burning anything in the exhaust is far less effective than burning it in the cylinder.
Didn't anti-lag work like that in WRC? It created that crackling sound on overrun. Used lots of fuel though.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 01 May 2017, 11:17
by Singabule
etusch wrote: ↑30 Apr 2017, 23:12
loner wrote: ↑30 Apr 2017, 22:10
they didn't even debut the 2017 PU , this Mercedes layout is the hardest but the question is : is it really worth it since Ferrari doing so great so far ?! however i believe its the revised head and pistons that holding them more than making the shaft work flawlessly
frankly i don't buy ALO retirement today it seems like he won't race again until they give him the 2017 PU
at least the first updated one which they claim on par with Mercedes 2016 one.
I also think that he withdraw race himself. İf he were come pitlane they will restart the engine and he can go on but he didn't.I am sure he does this because of team management. If there were Dennis he can not act like this. I am Alonso fan but I don't accept his behavour. Any team can be good without him. Any team can find good drivers and noone miss him if he keep acting like this. This is not samurai's way.
Because no hope for this power circuit, so that they can save engine millage until the upgraded engine available. So New engine is not available in Barcelona i guess
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 01 May 2017, 11:49
by etusch
It is sure that new engine is not ready because Hasegawa said that there is update in next a few race. He didnt pointet spain
But withdrawing from race for saving mileage is not correct because their job is this. With that logic every driver must withdraw when they see there is no point.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 01 May 2017, 11:55
by etusch
Singabule wrote: ↑01 May 2017, 10:52
2016 engine has COG problem so that even though they produce same power as Mercedes, they cant beat it. Any clarification on ERS system problem?
I think there will be no clarification because there is no such a real problem. He just pull out the car with first obstacle