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Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula
Posted: 08 Nov 2016, 10:49
by Blackout
Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula
Posted: 08 Nov 2016, 12:03
by hollus
And yet averyone is expecting PUs to gain 50-100 HP compared to 2016.
Can this much be expected just from experience and the dissapearance of the token system?
Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula
Posted: 08 Nov 2016, 15:08
by Juzh
Token rules are sporting regs, not technical. If that is what is confusing you.
Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula
Posted: 08 Nov 2016, 15:11
by Juzh
hollus wrote:And yet averyone is expecting PUs to gain 50-100 HP compared to 2016.
Can this much be expected just from experience and the dissapearance of the token system?
In previous years I'd say that much gain would be improbable. But actually the numbers on track going from 2014-2015-2016 would support 50 bhp increase over the winter. Especially now with the token drop and a lift on certain frozen components.
Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula
Posted: 09 Nov 2016, 04:42
by wuzak
Juzh wrote:
Token rules are sporting regs, not technical. If that is what is confusing you.
The token rules are/were in the technical regulations.
Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula
Posted: 09 Nov 2016, 09:03
by Craigy
wuzak wrote:Juzh wrote:
Token rules are sporting regs, not technical. If that is what is confusing you.
The token rules are/were in the technical regulations.
The token rules are in section 5.22 of the 2017 technical regs, titled "Replacing power unit parts" as well as Appendix 2 which is the table of parts.
The sporting rules cover things like replacing engine components rather than tokens for engine development.
Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula
Posted: 09 Nov 2016, 12:57
by Blackout
Apart from the token system, I thought the FIA said they will introduce new changes and limitations regarding the ES and control units packaging, crank dimensions, charge air temperatures etc and add 5kg of fuel
Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula
Posted: 09 Nov 2016, 17:20
by hurril
Blackout wrote:Apart from the token system, I thought the FIA said they will introduce new changes and limitations regarding the ES and control units packaging, crank dimensions, charge air temperatures etc and add 5kg of fuel
Where did you read this?
Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula
Posted: 09 Nov 2016, 18:09
by Juzh
Blackout wrote:Apart from the token system, I thought the FIA said they will introduce new changes and limitations regarding the ES and control units packaging, crank dimensions, charge air temperatures etc and add 5kg of fuel
5 kg extra is in the technical regs published 13.10.2016. Entire token section has been deleted from it. I was under the impression along with the token restrictions, any frozen parts have also been opened up to further development for next year.
Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula
Posted: 09 Nov 2016, 18:11
by Juzh
Craigy wrote:wuzak wrote:Juzh wrote:
Token rules are sporting regs, not technical. If that is what is confusing you.
The token rules are/were in the technical regulations.
The token rules are in section 5.22 of the 2017 technical regs, titled "Replacing power unit parts" as well as Appendix 2 which is the table of parts.
The sporting rules cover things like replacing engine components rather than tokens for engine development.
You're right
However, token table has been stricken from the latest technical regs.
Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula
Posted: 09 Nov 2016, 22:16
by henry
There are a number of new prescriptions for the ICE. They are in section 5 of the tech regs. Limits on piston and Conrod weight, crank config, weight, dimensions etc. Compression limited to 18:1.
the engine regs are much easier to digest than the aero.
Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula
Posted: 10 Nov 2016, 09:25
by Blackout
Okay thanks guys. So I was readingthe outdated version of the regs (February)...
hurril wrote:Blackout wrote:Apart from the token system, I thought the FIA said they will introduce new changes and limitations regarding the ES and control units packaging, crank dimensions, charge air temperatures etc and add 5kg of fuel
Where did you read this?
This is a bit technical and you all have the regulations but for example we put limits on the crankshaft dimensions, on the weights of some parts, so we are sure that there are limits on the development on these items. These limits were put where the best one is today, so that people know the target and also allow us to stop the best ones to develop more, to go lighter or smaller, so that we put something like a bit of a barrier to development.
In addition to this we put limits on the boost temperature, so they cannot develop too much their cooling and also a bit of packaging on the energy store and control electronics to avoid having to redo all the energy store to help the chassis performance.”
https://jwgrandprix.com/2016/05/13/form ... e-dropped/
Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula
Posted: 10 Nov 2016, 10:57
by Juzh
Blackout wrote:Okay thanks guys. So I was readingthe outdated version of the regs (February)...
hurril wrote:Blackout wrote:Apart from the token system, I thought the FIA said they will introduce new changes and limitations regarding the ES and control units packaging, crank dimensions, charge air temperatures etc and add 5kg of fuel
Where did you read this?
This is a bit technical and you all have the regulations but for example we put limits on the crankshaft dimensions, on the weights of some parts, so we are sure that there are limits on the development on these items. These limits were put where the best one is today, so that people know the target and also allow us to stop the best ones to develop more, to go lighter or smaller, so that we put something like a bit of a barrier to development.
In addition to this we put limits on the boost temperature, so they cannot develop too much their cooling and also a bit of packaging on the energy store and control electronics to avoid having to redo all the energy store to help the chassis performance.”
https://jwgrandprix.com/2016/05/13/form ... e-dropped/
Thanks.
This seems like it's not actually putting the performance in reverse, but rather limiting it at the current best on the grid (or close to it), so as to allow others to catch up and to avoid all out spending war.
Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula
Posted: 11 Nov 2016, 10:59
by Brian Coat
As I believe we may have discussed before, if you take the FIA's 'current practice' remarks at face value and combine the CR and charge temperature limits with what we believe is roughly the compressor boost, it offers an interesting insight into how the best engines may be operating.
E.g. Very high pressures and temperatures near TDCF.
Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula
Posted: 20 Nov 2016, 04:08
by ringo
If the mercedes layout is used by another team... can there be more than one MHUG on the same shaft connecting compressor to turbine?
I was doing some brainstorming, and i think much of the shaft deflection can be elimination if two MGUH units are used, one being on the back of the compressor and another on the back of the turbine; all along the same shaft with only small spaces in between for heat dissipation.