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Re: Formula One 1.6l turbo engine formula as of 2013
Posted: 20 May 2011, 14:01
by rjsa
Re: Formula One 1.6l turbo engine formula as of 2013
Posted: 20 May 2011, 14:16
by machin
Holm86 wrote:....So we can get some indication of the sound....
Turbocharged motorbike engines on YouTube? A turbo Hayabusa (1.3litres) should give some idea...?
Re: Formula One 1.6l turbo engine formula as of 2013
Posted: 20 May 2011, 14:50
by CMSMJ1
F2 and GP3 cars are 1.8 and 2l turbo IL4 engines respectively.
F2 - 300+ bhp
GP3 280 bhp.
They all sound rubbish.
Re: Formula One 1.6l turbo engine formula as of 2013
Posted: 20 May 2011, 21:07
by agip
Manufacturers To Drop Support For 2013 Engines
The 2013 engine rules are on the cusp of being scrapped. In interviews with Blick and Auto Motor und Sport this week, F1 chief executive Bernie Ecclestone slammed the four-cylinder turbo formula as "a joke".
He is backed by Ferrari, and F1's other engine manufacturers are now set to join the same argument about sticking with the current 2.4 litre V8s beyond next season.
FIA president Jean Todt has committed to meeting with the engine manufacturers in Barcelona on Saturday, and according to Ecclestone their message should be clear.
"The FIA made its decision based on false assumptions, without considering the side effects," said the 80-year-old.
"The manufacturers and the teams need to go to the FIA and say they have thought about it and concluded that while the decision seemed right then, from today's perspective it is wrong," added Ecclestone.
Auto Motor und Sport said the manufacturers' argument to Todt will be simple: that they cannot afford to build competitive four-cylinder turbos by 2013.
Even Mercedes has reportedly changed its position, concerned that with Renault not committing to F1 for the long term, it may have to supply more customer teams.
"We cannot do that," said Norbert Haug. "We support the four cylinder only if there is a guarantee that the costs will be reduced by 30 per cent over a period of five years."
Meanwhile, paddock rumours suggest that Craig Pollock's 'Pure' engine plans for 2013 are part of a political move to prove that the turbo formula can attract new suppliers.
Enticing Honda and Toyota to return, however - or luring the Volkswagen Group - has apparently failed, leaving F1's existing players wondering if it is a good move to throw away the proven V8 formula.
"The question is can we afford such a change?" Renault team boss Eric Boullier told F1's official website.
"All in all it is important that we don't take the wrong decision in terms of the sport's fans and its future," he said.
So one of the reasons is that the formula --aparently-- failed to attract new suppliers. But, do they think that any new manufacturer will come if they keep the current one? I dont think so.
Re: Formula One 1.6l turbo engine formula as of 2013
Posted: 20 May 2011, 22:47
by rjsa
It seems they believed the 'Build it and they will come' Tale. VW was one mentioned ad nauseum as a sample of the good things that would come with the 4 banger.
Guess what? Nobody came.
Forcing such a rule is against F1 IMO. F1 is not about mama's car.
Take McLaren's example: The 12C was mentined as the example of how even the super car industry was moving to downside, supercharged engine. Now the word is that their next car will have 8a 5.0 V8
Re: Formula One 1.6l turbo engine formula as of 2013
Posted: 21 May 2011, 01:20
by Pandamasque
agip wrote:So one of the reasons is that the formula --aparently-- failed to attract new suppliers. But, do they think that any new manufacturer will come if they keep the current one? I dont think so.
Does not losing 1 manufacturer count as a gain?
Re: Formula One 1.6l turbo engine formula as of 2013
Posted: 21 May 2011, 02:45
by ringo
I don't want the v8 back, if no 4 cylinder turbo, then gimme back the 3.0lt V10.
The current V8 are very boring now and sound lame.
1000hp v10 please.
Re: Formula One 1.6l turbo engine formula as of 2013
Posted: 21 May 2011, 02:57
by djos
I'd settle for a twin turbo 1.8ltr V6 with the 1 engine per weekend rule returning! [-o<
Re: Formula One 1.6l turbo engine formula as of 2013
Posted: 21 May 2011, 06:55
by WhiteBlue
agip wrote:Manufacturers To Drop Support For 2013 Engines
The 2013 engine rules are on the cusp of being scrapped. In interviews with Blick and Auto Motor und Sport this week, F1 chief executive Bernie Ecclestone slammed the four-cylinder turbo formula as "a joke".
He is backed by Ferrari, and F1's other engine manufacturers are now set to join the same argument about sticking with the current 2.4 litre V8s beyond next season.
FIA president Jean Todt has committed to meeting with the engine manufacturers in Barcelona on Saturday, and according to Ecclestone their message should be clear.
"The FIA made its decision based on false assumptions, without considering the side effects," said the 80-year-old.
"The manufacturers and the teams need to go to the FIA and say they have thought about it and concluded that while the decision seemed right then, from today's perspective it is wrong," added Ecclestone.
Auto Motor und Sport said the manufacturers' argument to Todt will be simple: that they cannot afford to build competitive four-cylinder turbos by 2013.
Even Mercedes has reportedly changed its position, concerned that with Renault not committing to F1 for the long term, it may have to supply more customer teams.
"We cannot do that," said Norbert Haug. "We support the four cylinder only if there is a guarantee that the costs will be reduced by 30 per cent over a period of five years."
Meanwhile, paddock rumours suggest that Craig Pollock's 'Pure' engine plans for 2013 are part of a political move to prove that the turbo formula can attract new suppliers.
Enticing Honda and Toyota to return, however - or luring the Volkswagen Group - has apparently failed, leaving F1's existing players wondering if it is a good move to throw away the proven V8 formula.
"The question is can we afford such a change?" Renault team boss Eric Boullier told F1's official website.
"All in all it is important that we don't take the wrong decision in terms of the sport's fans and its future," he said.
So one of the reasons is that the formula --aparently-- failed to attract new suppliers. But, do they think that any new manufacturer will come if they keep the current one? I dont think so.
The article is a piece of crap. The assertions are untrue and mainly fabricated. Of the existing four manufacturers two (Cosworth and Renault) support the turbo engines unconditionally. Mercedes say that they support it if they do not have to supply more teams. This is highly unlikely considering that Cosworth and Renault will supply at least eight or nine teams. If you add three by Mercedes and one by Ferrari you have twelve or thirteen teams. No need for Mercedes to supply more than the three they do now.
The other point was cost containment. If there is sufficient budget or resource restriction on the new engines they will be cost efficient and affordable. So all that is needed is put a stop to Ferrari's spending war to make the engines viable.
Many teams are concerned with the impact of the gas guzzling V8s on the sponsor market as Adam Parr has said in the last press conference. I'm pretty sure the teams will not be split from the FiA plan by Bernie's tactics.
Re: Formula One 1.6l turbo engine formula as of 2013
Posted: 21 May 2011, 07:28
by xpensive
WhiteBlue wrote:xpensive wrote:Nobody wants the four-pot formula in 2013, why it will not happen, or I'll eat an entire Caterham vehicle.
You can start eating. P.U.R.E.'s launch has cemented the legality of the engine rule. Todt will fight very hard to stop Ecclestone and Ferrari, who are the only opponents.
This will be interesting to follow, don't you agree WB?
Re: Formula One 1.6l turbo engine formula as of 2013
Posted: 21 May 2011, 11:26
by WhiteBlue
xpensive wrote:WhiteBlue wrote:xpensive wrote:Nobody wants the four-pot formula in 2013, why it will not happen, or I'll eat an entire Caterham vehicle.
You can start eating. P.U.R.E.'s launch has cemented the legality of the engine rule. Todt will fight very hard to stop Ecclestone and Ferrari, who are the only opponents.
This will be interesting to follow, don't you agree WB?
I agree, but the outcome is not going to change unless a political manoeuvre changes the voting mojorities. With the Concord and F1 ownership up in the air there is some potential for strange coalitions and surprising decisions.
Re: Formula One 1.6l turbo engine formula as of 2013
Posted: 21 May 2011, 11:47
by alelanza
Even i'm surprised to see this has started to crumble so soon, one would have expected that the proposers of this silly change would have anticipated such basic concerns. I was expecting them to shelve this later in the year.
Re: Formula One 1.6l turbo engine formula as of 2013
Posted: 21 May 2011, 13:08
by xpensive
Well, when some people believe that Cosworth and their teams carried enough weight to persuade the FIA to ban the EBD,
if only for a couple of hours, how about this then?
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/91544
Which begs the question, which engine manufacturer(s) wanted the four-pot formula from 2013 in the first place, I don't get it?
Re: Formula One 1.6l turbo engine formula as of 2013
Posted: 21 May 2011, 15:56
by Holm86
xpensive wrote:Well, when some people believe that Cosworth and their teams carried enough weight to persuade the FIA to ban the EBD,
if only for a couple of hours, how about this then?
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/91544
Which begs the question, which engine manufacturer(s) wanted the four-pot formula from 2013 in the first place, I don't get it?
Wasnt Cosworth one of the first teams to embrace the new turbo formulae?? And now they are ditching it too ...
Re: Formula One 1.6l turbo engine formula as of 2013
Posted: 21 May 2011, 17:32
by agip
xpensive wrote:Which begs the question, which engine manufacturer(s) wanted the four-pot formula from 2013 in the first place, I don't get it?
[youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w39wcmDj2Rg[/youtube]