F1technical.net

The elements are connected directly to the endplate by regulation this year, are they not?

Sieper wrote: ↑

12 Feb 2019, 18:13

The elements are connected directly to the endplate by regulation this year, are they not?

It's not a direct obligation, but the way the rules are constructed, and especially because the wing profiles aren't allowed to bend more than 15° angle, they end up being directly attached to the endplate. There's no other way really to construct it.

subcritical71 wrote: ↑

12 Feb 2019, 18:10

Here comes the sinister side of my thinking... What would happen if the end plates happen to 'fall off' the car. Would that allow the teams scope to modify the elements so that an end plate-less front wing would perform better by inducing outwash?

and also, if endplates come off in a race, so be it. But if you engineered (which seems impossible under the new regulations) endplates to fail and they do so by themselves we will for sure see the FIA instruct the team to reinforce them or risk disqualification from the next races. Like the redbull connection bar between the free elements on the front wing. It wasn't there (according to RBR it "failed") in the 2018 GB GP, the others complained and they were mandated to make sure the stiffener did not "fail" the next race.

I like your thinking, but the other teams are keeping eagle eyes out and if you try to be smart they will likely catch up with you in a heartbeat. But that shouldn't stop anybody from (trying to) being smart!

PlatinumZealot wrote: ↑

11 Dec 2018, 02:14

There are rumoured to be a couple of loopholes going into 2019 with these new regulations. So astounding that 2009's double diffuser will look like nothing!

So, when are these loophole devices that will make the double diffuser look like nothing be fitted to the cars?

jjn9128 wrote: ↑

25 Jan 2019, 11:33

Just_a_fan wrote: ↑

25 Jan 2019, 10:17

I'm not sure that's a wing as in a device generating lift. I think it's a device to tidy up and direct flow.

This is correct. As I've said a lot in this thread bargeboards are downwash (lift) generators. That "cat fish whisker" wing may still be used in 2019 but will be less effective as the height is reduced. It could also start to interfere with the footplate aerodynamics as the pressure fields interact more strongly.

The teams(McLaren/Red Bull) must see some benefit to running the boomerang lower than in 2018.

Shakeman wrote: ↑

14 Feb 2019, 16:38

PlatinumZealot wrote: ↑

11 Dec 2018, 02:14

There are rumoured to be a couple of loopholes going into 2019 with these new regulations. So astounding that 2009's double diffuser will look like nothing!

So, when are these loophole devices that will make the double diffuser look like nothing be fitted to the cars?

Why? did you have any doubt my sources wouldn't pull through? see my first post. right on the money!!

The up-vote button is to the right. Thank you. (tips hat)

PlatinumZealot wrote: ↑

11 Dec 2018, 02:14

From what I have heard so far, the out-wash front wing will live on. And live on strong at that. It is said the teams already recovered 2018 levels of down-force in the wind tunnels. The benefit of less out-wash is still as intended however, it's just not as low as FIA wanted it. Insiders believe that one or two teams have found a bigger loophole to take things even further and have created some never before seen flow structures off the front wing to make even more down-force over the car. As a viewer I don't know if this is good or bad news, it would depend on which team exploited it. I hope it's a mid-field team.

https://www.racefans.net/2019/02/14/rai ... lfa-romeo/

Well, I don't think anyone doubted we were going to see new flow structures, given completely new front wing regs.

Any wild guesses as to what happens to the airflow corraled by the boomerang and the top surface of the bargeboards, vs the airflow going underneath and helped along by all those little slots? Slow outwashing airflow on top vs a speedy guided vortex aided by ground effect underneath?

PlatinumZealot wrote: ↑

15 Feb 2019, 02:10

Why? did you have any doubt my sources wouldn't pull through? see my first post. right on the money!!

I don't believe you have any sources because like the average horoscope writer your wording was so vague it would allow you to claim any interesting design as foreknowledge.

But I did write this very specific suggestion,

"Would it be possible to move the vortex tunnel from the outside of the wings near the end plate to close to the nose of the car and aim the vortex at the front wheel wake to steer it outboard?"

Was it foreknowledge or an educated guess? Yeah, it was a guess at how teams may generate more out wash, the Alpha wing supports my guess too.

So, what should the Alfa Romeo/Ferrari type front wing be called?

How about a moustache-wing?

After seeing nearly all cars now, I'm a bit underwelmed, as deep inside I had hoped for a bit more innovation. The top 3 all came up with clear evolutions of their 2018 concepts. The midfielders (Renault and McLaren nearly 1:1) mostly copied RB14 sidepods while the only team that also commited to the sidepod downwash philosophy of RB14 seems to be TR. OK, they also had the best blueprints.

The most innovative so far seems to be the Alfa frontwing (finished or not, we will see), but I expect to see a lot more different front wings during testing from all the teams.

Looking at the conceptual changes a lot of the midfield cars have gone through, I even more expect that the gap from top 3 to the backmarkers will be bigger than last year, at least until they start to understand their cars better.

PlatinumZealot wrote: ↑

15 Feb 2019, 02:10

Shakeman wrote: ↑

14 Feb 2019, 16:38

PlatinumZealot wrote: ↑

11 Dec 2018, 02:14

There are rumoured to be a couple of loopholes going into 2019 with these new regulations. So astounding that 2009's double diffuser will look like nothing!

So, when are these loophole devices that will make the double diffuser look like nothing be fitted to the cars?

Why? did you have any doubt my sources wouldn't pull through? see my first post. right on the money!!

The up-vote button is to the right. Thank you. (tips hat)

PlatinumZealot wrote: ↑

11 Dec 2018, 02:14

From what I have heard so far, the out-wash front wing will live on. And live on strong at that. It is said the teams already recovered 2018 levels of down-force in the wind tunnels. The benefit of less out-wash is still as intended however, it's just not as low as FIA wanted it. Insiders believe that one or two teams have found a bigger loophole to take things even further and have created some never before seen flow structures off the front wing to make even more down-force over the car. As a viewer I don't know if this is good or bad news, it would depend on which team exploited it. I hope it's a mid-field team.

https://www.racefans.net/2019/02/14/rai ... lfa-romeo/
https://www.racefans.net/wp-content/upl ... _HiRes.jpg

To be fair this front wing isn’t a double diffuser. Teams create new front wings every other week and therefore it’s relatively simple to copy! The DD was difficult to copy.
I realise that the flow downstream is going to be difficult if you haven’t designed the whole car around front wing flow structures, but it seems this solution is sending air around the wheels and therefore the car can’t work it. Albeit if it’s (that’s a big if) spinning it could be sealing the floor

godlameroso wrote: ↑

15 Feb 2019, 05:14

https://images2.imgbox.com/7a/2b/bMpntFuv_o.jpg

Any wild guesses as to what happens to the airflow corraled by the boomerang and the top surface of the bargeboards, vs the airflow going underneath and helped along by all those little slots? Slow outwashing airflow on top vs a speedy guided vortex aided by ground effect underneath?

That McLaren barge board is so overhung it has to bend!
But other than that i suppose it moves the source of the vortices forward a bit closer to the front wheels giving a similar effect as what the outwash used to do.

Cant see the alfa romeo wing taking off although it looks disruptive. Probably half of downforce from last year and the outwash effect on a huge hole isnt same as when using guide vanes. Car looked ok cornering based on shakedown video, this week will be very interesting.

PlatinumZealot wrote: ↑

16 Feb 2019, 16:12

godlameroso wrote: ↑

15 Feb 2019, 05:14

https://images2.imgbox.com/7a/2b/bMpntFuv_o.jpg

Any wild guesses as to what happens to the airflow corraled by the boomerang and the top surface of the bargeboards, vs the airflow going underneath and helped along by all those little slots? Slow outwashing airflow on top vs a speedy guided vortex aided by ground effect underneath?

That McLaren barge board is so overhung it has to bend!
But other than that i suppose it moves the source of the vortices forward a bit closer to the front wheels giving a similar effect as what the outwash used to do.

Right, but what about the boomerang's interaction with airflow going over the bargeboards? Since the boomerang is a downwash device, and the bargeboards produce both out and upwash, wouldn't the boomerang increase the mass flow and boundary layer over the BBs?