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Actually, while we're on the subject, does anyone know what handles the onboard camera collation and transmission? Is this routed via the SECU for example, or would a dedicated video collation, compression and transmission "black box" be used?

As long as F1 is still available on regular TV they can broadcast it anyway they like for all I care.

HD TV is just not worth it yet in these parts without some overpriced Sky or similar subscription.

andrew wrote:As long as F1 is still available on regular TV they can broadcast it anyway they like for all I care.

HD TV is just not worth it yet in these parts without some overpriced Sky or similar subscription.

Thought about Freeview HD? Or is that not being broadcast in your neck of the woods at the moment?

My folks just got a Humax Freeview HD STB and it is actually pretty impressive.

I just want to press the red button and get HD or something. That way people without HD TV's dont need to worry.

The TV Camera is routed via the SECU. Thats the only reason i can think of that the TV camera will still be SD not HD. The only other concideration is weight, if its another 1KG device i think the teams would be against it, as for the aero conciderations for the housings, if they were bulkier id think they would be against HD more.

Im happy for SD car cameras and HD trackside cameras for now.

My memory may be deceiving me, but I thought HD onboard cameras were tested on the Red Bull towards the end of last season.

ESPImperium wrote:The TV Camera is routed via the SECU.

I believe this is not true for the architecture that the FiA posted in their request for quotations. You have a bunch of real time busses that connect various sub systems. There is the ECU, the FOM TV package and the FiA marshaling package. I believe they all communicate separately with the pits. It would be dumb to route all the high speed data through the ECU IMO.



The latest iterations may use slightly more advanced architectures. The data rates would massively increase for the FOM package if they upgrade all cameras from SD to 1080p HD signals. I doubt that you can do this with CAN bus any more, but there are known upgrades of the real time bus systems as well.

pob wrote:My memory may be deceiving me, but I thought HD onboard cameras were tested on the Red Bull towards the end of last season.

It was in June 2009 at the German GP on Vettel's car.

ESPImperium wrote:The TV Camera is routed via the SECU...

Why on earth would you have your engine controller connected to the TV camera??

forty-two wrote:

andrew wrote:As long as F1 is still available on regular TV they can broadcast it anyway they like for all I care.

HD TV is just not worth it yet in these parts without some overpriced Sky or similar subscription.

Thought about Freeview HD? Or is that not being broadcast in your neck of the woods at the moment?

My folks just got a Humax Freeview HD STB and it is actually pretty impressive.

Not sure but it would be an extra cost that I could do without right now. The problem with HD is there just isn't enough programmes that are worthy of being watched in HD. Besides F1 and the World Cup I can't honestly think what else I watch that I would think would be better viewed in HD.

WhiteBlue wrote:

ESPImperium wrote:The TV Camera is routed via the SECU.

I believe this is not true for the architecture that the FiA posted in their request for quotations. You have a bunch of real time busses that connect various sub systems. There is the ECU, the FOM TV package and the FiA marshaling package. I believe they all communicate separately with the pits. It would be dumb to route all the high speed data through the ECU IMO.



The latest iterations may use slightly more advanced architectures. The data rates would massively increase for the FOM package if they upgrade all cameras from SD to 1080p HD signals. I doubt that you can do this with CAN bus any more, but there are known upgrades of the real time bus systems as well.

pob wrote:My memory may be deceiving me, but I thought HD onboard cameras were tested on the Red Bull towards the end of last season.

It was in June 2009 at the German GP on Vettel's car.

If the items identified above as "CAN" are actually CAN-bus connections, then these would not offer anything like enough bandwidth to stream even a single standard definition video signal through, let-alone HD.

I imagine that the SECU might theoretically be employed to switch channels (i.e. select which camera on the vehicle is to be broadcast back to the TV studio at any one time).

But from the POV of the producer of the FOM output, they'd probably prefer to be able to pre-view the video stream from all onboard cameras on all cars in order that they can select the feed they'd like to show next.

pob wrote:My memory may be deceiving me, but I thought HD onboard cameras were tested on the Red Bull towards the end of last season.

Actually, I thought that was a test of 3D camera(s) not mere HD.

I can't see 3DTV catching on TBH, not until they can come up with a live holographic system which doesn't require fancy goggles be worn, something in the vein of "Help me Obi-Wan, you're our only hope"

FOM have confirmed HD delivery of all F1 rounds, inc the practice sessions and support races..

http://www.f1technical.net/news/15834

ESPImperium wrote:http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88865

More boroadcasters to follow??? And is this why the BBC has changed its commentry lineup for 2011???

Hope so!!!

According to this...

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88873

...everyone gets the feed. That is, unless Bernie's definition of "giving" is different from mine. It probably is, but no matter. There was a rumor late last year that Bernie had found a sponsor for the HD feed, and this would tend to confirm that.

Now, the claimed 42Mbit rate is blu ray quality. How degraded that will be by the time it gets to your TV will be up to your individual provider. i think it could be as low as 8Mbit and still be called HD. The point being that it's likely we'll get varying reports of quality, probably even a few who claim not to be able to tell any difference.

Beaten to the punch again.

forty-two wrote:

WhiteBlue wrote:

ESPImperium wrote:The TV Camera is routed via the SECU.

I believe this is not true for the architecture that the FiA posted in their request for quotations. You have a bunch of real time busses that connect various sub systems. There is the ECU, the FOM TV package and the FiA marshaling package. I believe they all communicate separately with the pits. It would be dumb to route all the high speed data through the ECU IMO.



The latest iterations may use slightly more advanced architectures. The data rates would massively increase for the FOM package if they upgrade all cameras from SD to 1080p HD signals. I doubt that you can do this with CAN bus any more, but there are known upgrades of the real time bus systems as well.

If the items identified above as "CAN" are actually CAN-bus connections, then these would not offer anything like enough bandwidth to stream even a single standard definition video signal through, let-alone HD.

I imagine that the SECU might theoretically be employed to switch channels (i.e. select which camera on the vehicle is to be broadcast back to the TV studio at any one time).

But from the POV of the producer of the FOM output, they'd probably prefer to be able to pre-view the video stream from all onboard cameras on all cars in order that they can select the feed they'd like to show next.

Whilst I can't be 100% sure, I think the CAN bus connection to the FOM TV system is simply a control link, not for video data (it'd be a stretch, but you could just squeeze a poor-quality video signal through a standard, consumerish CAN bus, though there'd be no bandwidth left for the control data)

andrew wrote:Not sure but it would be an extra cost that I could do without right now. The problem with HD is there just isn't enough programmes that are worthy of being watched in HD. Besides F1 and the World Cup I can't honestly think what else I watch that I would think would be better viewed in HD.

Durris has (to the best of my knowledge) supported DVB-T2 since the analogue signal was switched off last year (remember the adverts all over Marischal College?). Of course, with only 4 HD channels to choose from, I'd have to agree that there's little point in paying at least £100 for a new set top box or tv.

Pup wrote: Now, the claimed 42Mbit rate is blu ray quality. How degraded that will be by the time it gets to your TV will be up to your individual provider. i think it could be as low as 8Mbit and still be called HD. The point being that it's likely we'll get varying reports of quality, probably even a few who claim not to be able to tell any difference.

Not quite... Unfortunately, the powers that be at FOM have decided to use the antiquated MPEG-2 standard. I've no idea why they'd do this, it makes absolutely no sense and I can see no technical reason behind this (though there may be a financial one).
Frankly, it's an absolute disgrace, and a waste of bandwidth. I see it as a grand, obscene gesture to everyone who's been hoping for the best possible quality HD for F1. "You want HD?! Here's your damned HD, now stop your bitching!"