F1technical.net

henry wrote: ↑

05 Apr 2018, 10:35

johnny comelately wrote: ↑

05 Apr 2018, 09:35

henry wrote: ↑

05 Apr 2018, 09:25

We’ve discussed the effect on compressor inertia, or at least the whole assembly. Depending on what you think the compressor power is the split second (20 millisecond) might reduce the speed by 5% when you need it to go up to maintain constant lambda. Whether that is significant I don’t know, but it has to happen.

what about the role of the plenum?

Good point, The objective, to maintain lambda on upshift, would be to do everything possible to increase pressure, so maybe they close the throttles. On downshift they might dump from the plenum to the compressor intake.

I don’t know. What do you think?

I dont.
This mini subject feels like a trip to Canadia via Jo'burg
I emailed the FIA to get clarification re pop-off valve, so 2020 I can tell you.
makes sense to dump in plenum like an oil pump relief.

henry wrote: ↑

05 Apr 2018, 10:35

johnny comelately wrote: ↑

05 Apr 2018, 09:35

henry wrote: ↑

05 Apr 2018, 09:25

We’ve discussed the effect on compressor inertia, or at least the whole assembly. Depending on what you think the compressor power is the split second (20 millisecond) might reduce the speed by 5% when you need it to go up to maintain constant lambda. Whether that is significant I don’t know, but it has to happen.

what about the role of the plenum?

Good point, The objective, to maintain lambda on upshift, would be to do everything possible to increase pressure, so maybe they close the throttles. On downshift they might dump from the plenum to the compressor intake.

I don’t know. What do you think?

Close the throttle !!!???...am I misssing something here???

henry wrote: ↑

05 Apr 2018, 10:37

godlameroso wrote: ↑

05 Apr 2018, 05:43

The turbo also harvests electrical energy?

A pedant wouldn’t say so.

What usage condition are you referring to?

Turbo-machinery function vis a vis the electrickery drive - generating, or parasiting - power?

johnny comelately wrote: ↑

05 Apr 2018, 10:42

henry wrote: ↑

05 Apr 2018, 10:35

johnny comelately wrote: ↑

05 Apr 2018, 09:35

what about the role of the plenum?

Good point, The objective, to maintain lambda on upshift, would be to do everything possible to increase pressure, so maybe they close the throttles. On downshift they might dump from the plenum to the compressor intake.

I don’t know. What do you think?

Close the throttle !!!???...am I misssing something here???

Perhaps by 'close the throttle' Henry means a split second 'flutter' - to create a (useful?) pressure pulse..

J.A.W. wrote: ↑

05 Apr 2018, 10:52

johnny comelately wrote: ↑

05 Apr 2018, 10:42

henry wrote: ↑

05 Apr 2018, 10:35

Good point, The objective, to maintain lambda on upshift, would be to do everything possible to increase pressure, so maybe they close the throttles. On downshift they might dump from the plenum to the compressor intake.

I don’t know. What do you think?

Close the throttle !!!???...am I misssing something here???

Perhaps by 'close the throttle' Henry means a split second 'flutter' - to create a (useful?) pressure pulse..

I got nothing (to this psychodelica stuff)

But Johhny, you do know how an energised gas column can be used to move things.. in a gun, or a 2T pipe..

J.A.W. wrote: ↑

05 Apr 2018, 11:06

But Johhny, you do know how an energised gas column can be used to move things.. in a gun, or a 2T pipe..

yep, just cant connect these particular dots. looking forward to class though.
might be an idea to discuss the best spud gun stories....

Are there humidity sensors used on these engines?
Does anyone know the layout of the sensors for temp, maf (what type?), map etc and who supplies them?

I'm sure more data is more better. The trick I guess is avoiding the downsides to the different sensor types, and more importantly getting them all to communicate, with the goal being higher resolution as a whole while accounting for all the different parameters. One could argue that MAP sensor with good tuning is more than sufficient, and it is for your average tin can Flintstone mobile. There's just too many parameters that need to be just right to get the most out of your fire cocktail that you'd essentially be chopping your legs off going the simple route.

johnny comelately wrote: ↑

05 Apr 2018, 10:40

henry wrote: ↑

05 Apr 2018, 10:35

johnny comelately wrote: ↑

05 Apr 2018, 09:35

what about the role of the plenum?

Good point, The objective, to maintain lambda on upshift, would be to do everything possible to increase pressure, so maybe they close the throttles. On downshift they might dump from the plenum to the compressor intake.

I don’t know. What do you think?

I dont.
This mini subject feels like a trip to Canadia via Jo'burg
I emailed the FIA to get clarification re pop-off valve, so 2020 I can tell you.
makes sense to dump in plenum like an oil pump relief.

Surely any pop-off valve dumps into the exhaust?

If it goes into the plenum, the whole purpose of the pop-off valve is defeated.

wuzak wrote: ↑

08 Apr 2018, 02:25

johnny comelately wrote: ↑

05 Apr 2018, 10:40

henry wrote: ↑

05 Apr 2018, 10:35

Good point, The objective, to maintain lambda on upshift, would be to do everything possible to increase pressure, so maybe they close the throttles. On downshift they might dump from the plenum to the compressor intake.

I don’t know. What do you think?

I dont.
This mini subject feels like a trip to Canadia via Jo'burg
I emailed the FIA to get clarification re pop-off valve, so 2020 I can tell you.
makes sense to dump in plenum like an oil pump relief.

Surely any pop-off valve dumps into the exhaust?

If it goes into the plenum, the whole purpose of the pop-off valve is defeated.

It goes in the airbox.

wuzak wrote: ↑

08 Apr 2018, 02:25

johnny comelately wrote: ↑

05 Apr 2018, 10:40

henry wrote: ↑

05 Apr 2018, 10:35

Good point, The objective, to maintain lambda on upshift, would be to do everything possible to increase pressure, so maybe they close the throttles. On downshift they might dump from the plenum to the compressor intake.

I don’t know. What do you think?

I dont.
This mini subject feels like a trip to Canadia via Jo'burg
I emailed the FIA to get clarification re pop-off valve, so 2020 I can tell you.
makes sense to dump in plenum like an oil pump relief.

Surely any pop-off valve dumps into the exhaust?

If it goes into the plenum, the whole purpose of the pop-off valve is defeated.

I think you misread, I said “out of” not “into”. From high pressure to low.

I wonder if it's possible to combine a map sensor that also has the function of an AF sensor/humidity/temp/etc sensor. From the looks of it Renault has such an assembly integrated into their VLIM system. Sensors and the type used are incredibly important especially from an engine performance stand point, and no one seems to care about boring ol' sensors. Pressure sensors in the cylinders, probably integrated in the injectors and spark plug/flame chamber. Without these sensors your injectors are whizzing in the dark.

Is it possible to use oil to moisten the air filter?

What about exhaust sensors, do they only use a wideband O2 sensor? Do they try to sense other exhaust products? NOx tuning?