F1technical.net

wuzak wrote:

gruntguru wrote:Agree. I think they have just drawn a smooth curve through the data points (one for each stage.)

OTOH the total pressure (static plus dynamic) might increase progressively in the rotor blade section as energy is imparted but should not increase in the stator section.

Nice find BTW.

I think they can get some pressure rise in the stator section.

godlameroso wrote:Not likely, I'm willing to bet they stay roughly at the same position all year, they may climb to the top of the midfield by the end of the year but they just won't have the straight line speed to keep up with Ferrari or Mercedes. I think they made design decisions they can't undo until next year, and that they'll be able to craft a much better power unit. But who knows maybe I'm wrong, and McLaren take a step forward in Spain, then another in around Suzuka.

gruntguru wrote:

godlameroso wrote:Not likely, I'm willing to bet they stay roughly at the same position all year, they may climb to the top of the midfield by the end of the year but they just won't have the straight line speed to keep up with Ferrari or Mercedes. I think they made design decisions they can't undo until next year, and that they'll be able to craft a much better power unit. But who knows maybe I'm wrong, and McLaren take a step forward in Spain, then another in around Suzuka.

Honda would have started the season with a prediction of Mercedes power - accurate within perhaps 2 or 3 percent. They would not have entered the fray with a 15% deficit and no prospect of significantly closing that gap. If they are 128 bhp behind now, I am sure their basic design has the potential to reduce that to 50 hp or less.

The improvements will come from fine-tuning and resolution of issues that have arisen from packaging the PU in a car and operating it in the GP environment.

shady wrote:

gruntguru wrote:Axial and centrifugal compressors are "rotodynamic" machines. This means they work by accelerating the air to a high velocity (kinetic energy) then convert that KE to pressure by slowing it down again in a diffuser. In broad terms the PR of each stage is limited by the velocity ratio of the outlet to inlet of the rotating part (impeller).

It is obvious immediately that a centrifugal compressor impeller has a relatively slow inlet and much higher velocity outlet - being placed much further from the axis of rotation.

Axial compressors achieve a velocity difference through blade shape. At the intake side the blades are slicing through the air as it approaches roughly axially (small tangential velocity component). As the air passes along the blade, it is turned to rotate in the same direction as the rotating impeller so it now has a large tangential velocity component in addition to its axial (flow) component. It should be clear that the potential for achieving a large velocity ratio is much less for the axial compressor. If higher pressures are required, it is necessary to slow the air down in a diffuser (stationary vanes) and repeat the process in another stage.

Do you have an equation? Based on some of the schematics shared, that may not be the case if it is, a radial compressor still has waste gates, which is to say excess pressure.

godlameroso wrote:Not likely, I'm willing to bet they stay roughly at the same position all year, they may climb to the top of the midfield by the end of the year but they just won't have the straight line speed to keep up with Ferrari or Mercedes. I think they made design decisions they can't undo until next year, and that they'll be able to craft a much better power unit. But who knows maybe I'm wrong, and McLaren take a step forward in Spain, then another in around Suzuka.

stevesingo wrote:Based on the following assumptions...

AFR-14.7:1
VE 120%
RPM 10500

I calculate 3.1Bar absolute.

radosav wrote:I would take those tweets with a lot of reserve!