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Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula
Posted: 02 Apr 2019, 00:41
by SmallSoldier
erikejw wrote:hollus wrote: ↑01 Apr 2019, 22:53
How is one supposed to derive power from noise?
My assumption is that they use much more data than noise. The noise will measure the exact rpm(with FFT, math) during acceleration at every moment in time. Knowing the exact change in rpm and gearing(or measured speed with laser) gives speed differentials at different moments and knowing the weight gives a very good kw value. Throw in estimated or real drag levels and your calculations will be close to reality. This is a simplistic view, more data will give even better figures.
FIA probably use it mostly to detect engine anomalys, weird speeds(excess acceleration), so they can look into why.
Really? So... They use noise to measure RPM and from that, they measure Horsepower? Lol
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Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula
Posted: 02 Apr 2019, 02:42
by wuzak
Sound analysis was performed in the N/A days and came up with some decent estimations.
But I'm not sure how relevant sound is when the engine is turbocharged.
Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula
Posted: 02 Apr 2019, 03:04
by SmallSoldier
wuzak wrote:Sound analysis was performed in the N/A days and came up with some decent estimations.
But I'm not sure how relevant sound is when the engine is turbocharged.
Any papers to show the methodology?
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Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula
Posted: 02 Apr 2019, 11:28
by wuzak
SmallSoldier wrote: ↑02 Apr 2019, 03:04
wuzak wrote:Sound analysis was performed in the N/A days and came up with some decent estimations.
But I'm not sure how relevant sound is when the engine is turbocharged.
Any papers to show the methodology?
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I did a quick google search and found his one
https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/721456
And a thread on this forum with some links that may help
viewtopic.php?t=8841
Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula
Posted: 02 Apr 2019, 23:37
by mzso
Okay, so there's any english article based on this:
https://thejudge13.com/2019/04/01/unfor ... s-in-2019/
Which made me realize that it is based on qualifying. Which is kind of dumb, and makes it not all that relevant. Honda (and Renault) might not have a party mode yet, might not ever get a party mode at all...
So the in-race difference might be a lot less.
Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula
Posted: 03 Apr 2019, 05:34
by etusch
mzso wrote: ↑02 Apr 2019, 23:37
Okay, so there's any english article based on this:
https://thejudge13.com/2019/04/01/unfor ... s-in-2019/
Which made me realize that it is based on qualifying. Which is kind of dumb, and makes it not all that relevant. Honda (and Renault) might not have a party mode yet, might not ever get a party mode at all...
So the in-race difference might be a lot less.
I don't think that Hamilton was talking about believing some lier but what he heard from his team. I don't think that 38 hp means it is certainly 38 hp. But I believe that it is more realistic number for Honda deficit(maybe 30 maybe 40 around that number ). Because Tanabe san says there is huge gap with front runners. If it were 10 hp I think he would not say that.
Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula
Posted: 03 Apr 2019, 05:59
by gruntguru
mzso wrote: ↑02 Apr 2019, 23:37
Okay, so there's any english article based on this:
https://thejudge13.com/2019/04/01/unfor ... s-in-2019/
Which made me realize that it is based on qualifying. Which is kind of dumb, and makes it not all that relevant. Honda (and Renault) might not have a party mode yet, might not ever get a party mode at all...
So the in-race difference might be a lot less.
No reason it can't be use during the race. It simply requires in-car audio and AFAIK it is based entirely on extracting rpm data from the engine sound. Once you have a rpm/time dataset you can estimate gear ratios, velocity, acceleration and (with vehicle mass) power.
Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula
Posted: 03 Apr 2019, 09:09
by mzso
etusch wrote: ↑03 Apr 2019, 05:34
Because Tanabe san says there is huge gap with front runners. If it were 10 hp I think he would not say that.
Link/quote? I don't remember anyone saying "huge".
Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula
Posted: 08 Apr 2019, 10:34
by Jambier
And other said:
But I don't really believe this
Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula
Posted: 08 Apr 2019, 18:07
by mzso
They share fuel/oil suppliers with their lackey teams, right? It might as well be that Ferrari is just more aerodynamically efficient. So they have much less drag while having the same downforce in turns.
Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula
Posted: 09 Apr 2019, 04:00
by wuzak
mzso wrote: ↑08 Apr 2019, 18:07
They share fuel/oil suppliers with their lackey teams, right?
Correct
Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula
Posted: 09 Apr 2019, 15:48
by JordanMugen
mzso wrote: ↑08 Apr 2019, 18:07
They share fuel/oil suppliers with their lackey teams, right? It might as well be that Ferrari is just more aerodynamically efficient. So they have much less drag while having the same downforce in turns.
Yes, it could be the gain from the shallow air intake above the driver's helmet (which is unique to Ferrari?), in addition to slim sidepod inlets as well...
As to how Ferrari achieves the cooling? A mystery, but very impressive!
Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula
Posted: 10 Apr 2019, 06:41
by ringo
Since 2014 there have been these big 40hp chunks slapped on to ferrari and mercedes over the closest rival. When will it end?
40 x 5 = 200hp gained from 2014!
Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula
Posted: 12 Apr 2019, 18:21
by voice_of_reason
It will never end ... just the gains will get smaller.
Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula
Posted: 19 Apr 2019, 03:02
by roon
Ferrari and Honda with Merc type intake manifold this year. Convergence. Honda running it since moving to a split turbo. Merc type being three equal-length runners feeding into a trilobular VIM/VLM canister.
MtthsMlw wrote: ↑18 Apr 2019, 23:28
via f1i.auto-moto.com
