F1technical.net

With the new Baku spec wings.

Sevach wrote: ↑

05 Jun 2021, 17:31

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZx3ZhB ... kusaShadow

With the new Baku spec wings.

Maybe it's a optical illusion because I'm a Mercedes fan, but it looks like Red Bull's wing is bending substantially more.

Marty_Y wrote: ↑

05 Jun 2021, 17:38

Sevach wrote: ↑

05 Jun 2021, 17:31

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZx3ZhB ... kusaShadow

With the new Baku spec wings.

Maybe it's a optical illusion because I'm a Mercedes fan, but it looks like Red Bull's wing is bending substantially more.

Well, I quote @Dans, who got two upvotes for it, so I assume he is right.

dans79 wrote: ↑

04 Jun 2021, 23:43

How much a wing dips/deflects/rotates is based on the force applied to it. Thus a lower downforce/drag wing, should dip/deflect less at the same speed.

RBR ran a high DF wing and Hamilton ran a low DF wing, so the Mercedes wing should reflect less than the RBR wing.

He ran a "low DF wing" relative to their other option used by Bottas ... just looking at it the RBR wing should be a lower DF wing overall though, or am i mistaken? It would appear that it has a smaller upper element at a shallower angle...

Scaled them to roughly the same width here viewtopic.php?p=975369#p975369

Side by side sourced from that image:


The deflection is similar though, def. not a substantial difference...

So Hamilton got a new wing and Bottas got hung out to dry. No protest and RB not on pole. I guess this thread will die like the Istanbul 2020 one?

RZS10 wrote: ↑

05 Jun 2021, 18:27

He ran a "low DF wing" relative to their other option used by Bottas ... just looking at it the RBR wing should be a lower DF wing overall though, or am i mistaken? It would appear that it has a smaller upper element at a shallower angle...

Scaled them to roughly the same width here viewtopic.php?p=975369#p975369

Side by side sourced from that image:
https://i.imgur.com/NcECXfQ.png

The deflection is similar though, def. not a substantial difference...

I appreciate the effort at normalizing the footage since it's pretty apparent that the RedBull's camera distance is closer to the rear wing than the Mercedes. This in effect will make the appearance of the dip ever so much more despite the yellow line (which also would need to be re-scaled) drawn on the footage as being placed when the wing is deflected. The FIA would have to have some clever calculations and measurements of the camera lens position relative to the markers on the wings. A side by side comparison really has no real significance at this point since it really doesn't matter whose wing is flexing more based on non-normalized video feeds based on camera position variance.

With the footage overlaid on top of each other the camera difference and wing perspective/parallax is pretty obvious. The cameras placement itself would need to be standardized relative to fixed measuring positions in order for it to be a reliable regulation enforcing tool. With the footage overlaid it's pretty obvious this isn't the case. Teal is MB, Ping is RedBull.

It's not necessarily just the distance (the difference wouldn't be that big(?)) maybe different lenses or zoom, it's the same on the front facing cams - i'm surprised that sky didn't bother with adjusting the videos so that both wings would at least have roughly the same size, that's some very basic video editing.

I believe that it's "close enough" to scale the images based on the wings' width (i'm adjusting with the aspect ratio maintained), at least when the visible difference in tilt is large enough, here i specifically just wrote it's similar.

I also believe that the FIA is clever enough to do some (probably not overly complicated) calculations since they will know all distances etc ... and they're not comparing different wings to each other but the same wing in different situations so the differences from the cameras shouldn't play much of a role, if any at all.

But yea the last image was just about downforce levels, that's why i put them side by side.

nzjrs wrote: ↑

05 Jun 2021, 20:38

So Hamilton got a new wing and Bottas got hung out to dry. No protest and RB not on pole. I guess this thread will die like the Istanbul 2020 one?

Oh c'mon don't be so pessimistic ... this thread can surely get to 100 pages just needs some more of this

I don't think that Baku is the right track to judge wing deflections, because especially Redbull uses a low downforce rear wing. This wing creates less drag than the one in Barcelona and therefore, the flexing effect is also reduced.

Toto yesterday after the qualification:

According to the team boss, no decision has yet been made about a possible protest against Red Bull. "Everyone is getting a little tired of that flexi-wing saga I think and that includes myself," he explains. "Let's wait and see what happens. I don't know exactly what Red Bull had on their cars today and what they will do tomorrow. Then we will only make a decision [after the race, ed.] about a possible protest."

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... eering.pdf

After the qualifying practice session:
...
A horizontal rear wing deflection test was carried out on car numbers 44, 33 and 14.
A vertical rear wing deflection test was carried out on car numbers 44 and 33.
...

https://youtu.be/5H8kLWlD8Eg
Horner about bendy wings.

Wouter wrote: ↑

05 Jun 2021, 18:16

Marty_Y wrote: ↑

05 Jun 2021, 17:38

Sevach wrote: ↑

05 Jun 2021, 17:31

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZx3ZhB ... kusaShadow

With the new Baku spec wings.

Maybe it's a optical illusion because I'm a Mercedes fan, but it looks like Red Bull's wing is bending substantially more.

Well, I quote @Dans, who got two upvotes for it, so I assume he is right.

dans79 wrote: ↑

04 Jun 2021, 23:43

How much a wing dips/deflects/rotates is based on the force applied to it. Thus a lower downforce/drag wing, should dip/deflect less at the same speed.

RBR ran a high DF wing and Hamilton ran a low DF wing, so the Mercedes wing should reflect less than the RBR wing.

I'm not sure where you got this from but Hamilton ran lower DF than bottas, but quite visibly nowhere close as low as red bull did. Mercedes actually ran their usual barn door wing (for this track) that they always run, while red bull ran their usual lower wing setup that they always run.

nzjrs wrote: ↑

05 Jun 2021, 20:38

So Hamilton got a new wing and Bottas got hung out to dry. No protest and RB not on pole. I guess this thread will die like the Istanbul 2020 one?

I dunno! I think there might be some fireworks during the French GP weekend and afterward, depending on whether the new tests affect anything. The real issue may be IF some wings pass the load tests but are then seen to be still flexing on track. Suppose it's up to the FIA to decide what, if anything, they wish to do about it based on rear camera evidence.

The only thing I hope is they make a clear communication/statement about it so there's no muddiness. (Unlikely)

Juzh wrote: ↑

08 Jun 2021, 13:36

Wouter wrote: ↑

05 Jun 2021, 18:16

RBR ran a high DF wing and Hamilton ran a low DF wing, so the Mercedes wing should reflect less than the RBR wing.

I'm not sure where you got this from but Hamilton ran lower DF than bottas, but quite visibly nowhere close as low as red bull did. Mercedes actually ran their usual barn door wing (for this track) that they always run, while red bull ran their usual lower wing setup that they always run.

I got my information from Horner who said that Max raced with a medium/high DF wing and Perez with almost the same wing.

Where did you get the information from that "red bull ran their usual lower wing setup that they always run."?

So what is the deal now?

1. Will there be a clamp down on front wing movement or not? And if not, why the different treatment? Rear wing flexing classified as a potential safety issue (huge spin) when it snaps vs front wing (you will not spin but simply go straight)? Red Bull not as influent as Mercedes in making the FIA do what it wants? Lots of questions.

2. Are the rear wings run at Baku already compliant with the new rules (with RB now flexing way less and now equal flex as Merc wing)? That would be good for the championship fight (on normal tracks the RB16B seems to be clearly a bit slower than the W12, so RB having to further change their wing while Merc has to change nothing will basically end any real chance of RB). If not, why didn’t Merc protest like they said?

3. What were the results of the sticker tests?