F1technical.net

Hi All,

I'm involved with a local race series who have a reverse grid system. The current system caused mayhem this weekend so we're looking at tweaking the rules.

The raceday format is a qualifying session and two sprint races. Qualifying determines the race 1 grid, and the race 2 grid is determined by a 102% rule. Here, the fastest lap time of race 1 is taken, and positions are reversed up to the first driver with time over 102% of that time, with the winner of race 1 in the final reversed position (i.e. at the back of the reversed grid) regardless of his time.

This usally works well, and sees around 5-8 drivers reversed of a field of about 15. But last weekend the race 1 times were tight, and the whole grid was reversed except for two non-finishers. This was a balls-up though, as it caused some lap 1 mayhem that saw the session red-flagged, damage to cars, and a minor (wrist) injury.

So we're looking at alternative methods which will consistently see just less than half the grid reversed, but perhaps not by a fixed number. So far a bit of googling has uncovered a few used or proposed alternatives. I'm hoping some of you know of other viable methods or have opinions on these ideas. What we have so far is:

• Reverse grid for the second race will be based on the final results of the Q1 qualifying session.
• Podium draw to determine where on the grid the race 1 winner will start - anywhere between sixth and 10th. Cars are reversed ahead of him until the grid is full.
• Use the fastest laps of race 1. That way a driver who has completed all but one lap, might still be rewarded for a great race, instead of being relegated to the back of the field.
• Use the second fastest time in qualifying to set the race 2 grid. To be done with both grids in the same qualifying. Puts some more pressure on the drivers in qualifying too that way.

Any other ideas or debate about ideas would be welcomed.

Thanks,
Chris

Why not base Grid 2 on the finish from Race 1?

The Top8 guys from Race 1 gets switched so the person who finished 8th in race 1 will now get pole for race 2.

This is a site about the technology of F1. Your question is inappropriate here.

Have you thought about starting BOTH races with reversed grid based on the series points standings (current before the given race meeting)?
P1 would be the driver with 1 point (last person in the standings with at least 1 point), P2 the penultimate one etc. The drivers with 0 points in he standings start behind everyone else in order of their car numbers (or practice times, or whatever).

tok-tokkie wrote:This is a site about the technology of F1. Your question is inappropriate here.

This forum section is about "Other racing series", you are not a moderator. Your comment is inappropriate here.

HampusA wrote:Why not base Grid 2 on the finish from Race 1?

The Top8 guys from Race 1 gets switched so the person who finished 8th in race 1 will now get pole for race 2.

Doesn't that lead to problems if the driver in 8th knows he'll get pole? I guess on the one hand there may be a battle for 8th, on the other a driver in 8th won't fight too hard to move up a place? Something with an unknown component may be better. Something with an unknown/random component seems preferable though.

Pandamasque wrote:Have you thought about starting BOTH races with reversed grid based on the series points standings (current before the given race meeting)?
P1 would be the driver with 1 point (last person in the standings with at least 1 point), P2 the penultimate one etc. The drivers with 0 points in he standings start behind everyone else in order of their car numbers (or practice times, or whatever).

Ah yes. That would need some tweaking as all "starters" (>1 lap completed) get a point, "finishers" (>66% laps completed). So everyone has points in the bag. Nice idea though. I'll add it to the pool.

ChrisDanger wrote:

HampusA wrote:Why not base Grid 2 on the finish from Race 1?

The Top8 guys from Race 1 gets switched so the person who finished 8th in race 1 will now get pole for race 2.

Doesn't that lead to problems if the driver in 8th knows he'll get pole? I guess on the one hand there may be a battle for 8th, on the other a driver in 8th won't fight too hard to move up a place? Something with an unknown component may be better. Something with an unknown/random component seems preferable though.

I don´t think so to be honest. We have it in STCC which basically is the same as WTCC or BTCC.

It´s a good system to use for double sprints. I´m pretty sure GP2 uses something similar.

To get rid of the "I'll just get 8th"-effect, some series give more points for the first race than the second, so that the difference between 7th and 8th in the first race is at least as big as the difference between 1st and 2nd in the second race. Uh, that didn't make much sense, did it? I think GP2 uses the old F1 system for the first race:
10, 8, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.
And then less points for the second race:
6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.

One could also just pick a random number, and then reverse everyone ahead of the guy in this place.

Thanks for all the input. It was decided to keep the 102% reversed grid, but to limit the maximum number of reversed drivers to 8.