Are you SURE you are a Ferrai fan? I wonder . . .yener wrote:Correct me if im wrong but i think that Ferrari dont know what they are doing.
They did copy a lot of the RBR cars but it didnt work out.
And i honestly think they wont in 2012.
I have a reall pasion for Ferrari and i love the team. But without Fernando (don't like him at all) they would lose more points to the top team than they already did last season.
Fernando is a real fast driver and his speed makes the Ferrari looks faster than it actually is.
Im curious for the next season and all we can do is speculate.. But cmon what did they show last season? Nothing. They could not make the hard tyres work, made a horrible copy of the RBR front wing, the updates didn't work out right and many more.
Compared to McLaren and they know exactly what to do, they are going to have a hard time.
Did i say something which broke your ferrari glasses? Or does it just hurt to hear the reality?donskar wrote:Are you SURE you are a Ferrai fan? I wonder . . .yener wrote:Correct me if im wrong but i think that Ferrari dont know what they are doing.
They did copy a lot of the RBR cars but it didnt work out.
And i honestly think they wont in 2012.
I have a reall pasion for Ferrari and i love the team. But without Fernando (don't like him at all) they would lose more points to the top team than they already did last season.
Fernando is a real fast driver and his speed makes the Ferrari looks faster than it actually is.
Im curious for the next season and all we can do is speculate.. But cmon what did they show last season? Nothing. They could not make the hard tyres work, made a horrible copy of the RBR front wing, the updates didn't work out right and many more.
Compared to McLaren and they know exactly what to do, they are going to have a hard time.
Just because they are testing parts seen other cars doesn't mean that they don't have a clue. If that was the case then every team that copied the DDD, EBD and F-duct were all clueless. There is nothing wrong in trying to understanding what makes the fastest car on the grid the fastest.yener wrote:Did i say something which broke your ferrari glasses? Or does it just hurt to hear the reality?donskar wrote:Are you SURE you are a Ferrai fan? I wonder . . .yener wrote:Correct me if im wrong but i think that Ferrari dont know what they are doing.
They did copy a lot of the RBR cars but it didnt work out.
And i honestly think they wont in 2012.
I have a reall pasion for Ferrari and i love the team. But without Fernando (don't like him at all) they would lose more points to the top team than they already did last season.
Fernando is a real fast driver and his speed makes the Ferrari looks faster than it actually is.
Im curious for the next season and all we can do is speculate.. But cmon what did they show last season? Nothing. They could not make the hard tyres work, made a horrible copy of the RBR front wing, the updates didn't work out right and many more.
Compared to McLaren and they know exactly what to do, they are going to have a hard time.
I love Ferrari, but they just don't have a clue.
Yes they have taken a completely different approach but after failing to win a championship for 4 years, it is somewhat justified. Yes, in F1 one cannot be competitive by simply copying others but by understanding what makes RBR fast and incorporating it into their own design and possibly even improving upon it is at least a start. Also the fact that they are willing to go down a different route shows that they are open minded unlike Costa who stuck with his conservative approach and look where it got them.shelly wrote:We are not talking about gizmos (ddd, ebd, f-duct), but about the front wing.
ferrari has gone its way for two years with front wing design, believing they were exploiting the most of the 500x200x1800 box, and having their competitor shapes on their screen.
At the end of 2011, after a big change in people in the aero dept (they have now the third aero leader in three years IIRC, they have changed the cfd leader), and having hired new people form other teams at all levels of seniority, they have produced a wing that follows a completely different philosophy and closely matches redbull's shape.
It's like thay are resetting and starting over, it's something different from implementing ebd (which btw they did not do successfully - they have admitted underestimating its effects). All this is backed by Fry interview saying the will take a different approach from now on.
Costa has a degree in mechanical engineering so from that perspective, I agree with you that his aero background is limited. However, i think they can learn alot while on the job. For example, Byrne had no formal engineering or aero training yet he was certainly regarded as an aero specialist at Benetton and Ferrari.shelly wrote:Tombazis has a phd in aerodynamics, climbed all the steps in the windtunnel hierarchy and then became chief designer after a period in mclaren.
Costa is a mechsnical engineer who has become then deputy chief designer with byrne and then chief designer in couple with tombazis (I never understood who called the shots if the two disagreed).
It is a completely different background.
Every chief designer has to resort to his head of aero for finding aero performance, see for example newey and prodromou. But if the chief has an aero backgorund, he will understand aero better and probably he will be a little biased i favour of aerodynamcs when making compromises with the other departments.
Who knows who is the current head of aero at ferrari? Some say it is Hennel, but I have not seen any official acknowledgment of that. Do we have to wait until wroom in january?
All I have found is that Tombazis responsibilities are now more aero heavy (like back in 2003).
Byrne is a chemical engineer ....and that is also a completely different backgroundshelly wrote:Tombazis has a phd in aerodynamics, climbed all the steps in the windtunnel hierarchy and then became chief designer after a period in mclaren.
Costa is a mechsnical engineer who has become then deputy chief designer with byrne and then chief designer in couple with tombazis (I never understood who called the shots if the two disagreed).
It is a completely different background.
Chemical is quite far from the other engineering. Electrical, mechanical, structural, aero, etc are all somewhat related. Chemical is a beast in of itself.lotus7 wrote:Byrne is a chemical engineer ....and that is also a completely different backgroundshelly wrote:Tombazis has a phd in aerodynamics, climbed all the steps in the windtunnel hierarchy and then became chief designer after a period in mclaren.
Costa is a mechsnical engineer who has become then deputy chief designer with byrne and then chief designer in couple with tombazis (I never understood who called the shots if the two disagreed).
It is a completely different background.