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Concerns with new, 2012 exhaust positioning
Posted: 15 Nov 2011, 23:45
by Adamski
Formula 1 teams now already started the hard fight on the track for an early advantage in 2012. Everybody knows, that the biggest rule change for next year will be the ban of the EBD (Exhaust Blown Diffuser) technology. In that respect, the Williams team now testing a new solution to maximize track time with the new exhaust positioning.
Ross Brawn, the Mercedes GP team principal already worried about possible loopholes in the regulations:
"I don't think it is 100 per cent sorted unfortunately, and there is another meeting of the TWG."
"I think everyone, as they get more and more into it, are trying to close off the loopholes, but there is no guarantee that somebody will not come up with some scheme. It is fairly robust, but I would not say it is 100%, and I think the difficulty now is it is reaching a stage where teams will take their opportunities rather than change the regulations.
"Teams go through a period of finding the best regulations they can with good spirit and proper intent, and then you reach a stage where those regulations are fixed with the best intent. But if an engineer comes along with a good idea we have to consider it.
"In our case it is still relatively conventional, but whether someone else will come up with something dramatic I would have to wait and see. I would not say I am confident that there will not be an innovative exhaust scheme because once we have learned something you cannot unlearn it.
"The strength and performance that comes from the exhaust, using exhaust energy, is substantial, and people now have a better understanding of what they can do with exhausts/engine mapping to extenuate the effect."
As exhaust gases still there on the car and massive energy comes out from those pipes what do you think about the future? It is a new area for aerodynamic developments?
Re: Concerns with new, 2012 exhaust positioning
Posted: 16 Nov 2011, 01:17
by MIKEY_!
Well, blowing the rear wing is still and option. Scarbs had a big article on it. It's limited but still possible, even when not looking for loopholes. There will be a limit on the pipe tip nozzle which was vital this year. That will be a major limiting factor as to how far and with how much force the exhaust can blow.
Re: Concerns with new, 2012 exhaust positioning
Posted: 16 Nov 2011, 02:02
by hardingfv32
Can we assume that this is Williams judgement of what they think is best at this time or do they have the time to waste on a misdirection? While they maybe not the best F1 team, do they not know a little more about this subject than everyone on this forum?
Brian
Re: Concerns with new, 2012 exhaust positioning
Posted: 16 Nov 2011, 02:26
by PlatinumZealot
The exhaust should be strong enough to blow the underside of the rear wing I think. I can dream some real funky interpretations right now.
Re: Concerns with new, 2012 exhaust positioning
Posted: 16 Nov 2011, 09:36
by raymondu999
Brian - I think it's safe to say its just to get the exhausts away from the diffuser for now.
Smikle, I don't think you could thin the nozzle; there's a minimum diameter to the exhaust pipe
Re: Concerns with new, 2012 exhaust positioning
Posted: 16 Nov 2011, 11:24
by shelly
I think they maybe do not want to blow the rear wing: they want to blow the rear wing tip vortices instead (as strange as it may seem).
Or they maybe coupled with odd shaped rearwing, like canada r31 wing, to intract with vortices at the transition between significantly different sections of the rear wing (I think there is a central zone of 150mm in which the limitation for mainplane height are less restrictive).
Re: Concerns with new, 2012 exhaust positioning
Posted: 16 Nov 2011, 16:08
by PlatinumZealot
raymondu999 wrote:Brian - I think it's safe to say its just to get the exhausts away from the diffuser for now.
Smikle, I don't think you could thin the nozzle; there's a minimum diameter to the exhaust pipe
Teams can build a pipe inside a pipe then.
Re: Concerns with new, 2012 exhaust positioning
Posted: 16 Nov 2011, 17:06
by astracrazy
I've wondered about this, but wasn't sure. If it is possible then surely it opens up a can of worms?
Re: Concerns with new, 2012 exhaust positioning
Posted: 16 Nov 2011, 17:27
by bearbackracer
I am pretty sure that the new exhaust position will be made to interact with the DRS system to detach and re-attach the airflow - I strongly suspect that some teams are using the DRS actuator to link vents between the underfloor and wing structure to "vacuum up " the boundary layer as required .
Re: Concerns with new, 2012 exhaust positioning
Posted: 16 Nov 2011, 17:36
by raymondu999
n smikle wrote:raymondu999 wrote:Brian - I think it's safe to say its just to get the exhausts away from the diffuser for now.
Smikle, I don't think you could thin the nozzle; there's a minimum diameter to the exhaust pipe
Teams can build a pipe inside a pipe then.
Well that blows the regs out of the water...
Though I'm not completely familiar with the regs on the matter, it has to be said
Re: Concerns with new, 2012 exhaust positioning
Posted: 16 Nov 2011, 20:00
by hardingfv32
There comes a point where the engine guys are going to step in and question restricting the exhaust id to blow a surface that is 300-400 mm away from the exhaust tip.
Brian
Re: Concerns with new, 2012 exhaust positioning
Posted: 17 Nov 2011, 00:12
by kalinka
From Scarbs blog: "Then the tailpipe section is tightly defined, the last 100mm must be a round thinwall circular section, of 75mm internal diameter with no obstructions. So oval tailpipes, or pipes with internal vanes and\or slash cut exits are barred."
Re: Concerns with new, 2012 exhaust positioning
Posted: 17 Nov 2011, 01:49
by ringo
75mm internal diameter with no obstructions.
I think these guys saw my exhuasts.
This was a workaround for the 1 exit per side rude.
If it can be done for 2011 it can be done for 2012.
Re: Concerns with new, 2012 exhaust positioning
Posted: 17 Nov 2011, 01:53
by hardingfv32
You have a solution to what problem in 2012? Where is the requirement for multi exhaust outlets?
Brian