Red Bull RB8 Renault

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CHT
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Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

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Looking back the 2012, it is without any doubt that RBR has done wonders to turn a car that was struggling in both race and qualifying mid way through the season and turn it into a pole setter and winner.

Question to ask is, that was the most significant upgrade which RBR mid way in the season that make it a winner?

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Plutus
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Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

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CHT wrote:Looking back the 2012, it is without any doubt that RBR has done wonders to turn a car that was struggling in both race and qualifying mid way through the season and turn it into a pole setter and winner.

Question to ask is, that was the most significant upgrade which RBR mid way in the season that make it a winner?
The significant upgrade to the car was the Coanda Exhaust, as soon as they had it working. It made the car more stable in mid corner and exit, which allowed Vettel to unfold his full potential.

However the race pace of the RB8 did not seem to bad, at the beginning of the season, if I remember correctly the car was seemingly easy on its tires in the race, they just had problems "turning them on" for qualifying.
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aral
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Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

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Plutus wrote:
CHT wrote:Looking back the 2012, it is without any doubt that RBR has done wonders to turn a car that was struggling in both race and qualifying mid way through the season and turn it into a pole setter and winner.

Question to ask is, that was the most significant upgrade which RBR mid way in the season that make it a winner?
The significant upgrade to the car was the Coanda Exhaust, as soon as they had it working. It made the car more stable in mid corner and exit, which allowed Vettel to unfold his full potential.

However the race pace of the RB8 did not seem to bad, at the beginning of the season, if I remember correctly the car was seemingly easy on its tires in the race, they just had problems "turning them on" for qualifying.
I disagree. they had the coanda exhaust earlier . The difference came when they tunnelled the exhaust gasses to the beam wing.

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raymondu999
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Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

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Tunnelled exhaust gases? They tunnelled EXHAUST gases? Are you sure?
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McMrocks
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Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

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raymondu999 wrote:Tunnelled exhaust gases? They tunnelled EXHAUST gases? Are you sure?
Maybe gilgen is a insider who knows that the exhaust we saw was a dummy. The real exhaust exits in the tunnel...

wesley123
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Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

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McMrocks wrote:
raymondu999 wrote:Tunnelled exhaust gases? They tunnelled EXHAUST gases? Are you sure?
Maybe gilgen is a insider who knows that the exhaust we saw was a dummy. The real exhaust exits in the tunnel...
I know you are joking but there is no way that would be done.

Since 2011 blowing the outer 10cm of the floor between the tires is the most optimum position, since that is the only area where it is possible to bleed exhaust flow under the floor and seal the floor, to in turn allow larger rake and because of that virtually a much larger diffuser. There is no point in blowing the beam wing, brake ducts of w/e unless blowing this section is banned.
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raymondu999
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Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

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I can't speak for McMrocks, but to my knowledge, the RB8 never pointed its exhaust at a tunnel - while he said that the RB8 tunnelled the exhaust to the beam wing. Hence, I was looking for clarification if I missed something, or if it was a typo.
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aral
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Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

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raymondu999 wrote:Tunnelled exhaust gases? They tunnelled EXHAUST gases? Are you sure?
Yes. the coanda exhausts onto the rear floor and the airflow around the base of the sidepod, helps draw some hot gasses through the tunnels. Go back on photos of testing, and see where the heat sensors are placed.

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raymondu999
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Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

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Yes, but exhausts helping draw air through tunnels is quite different from:
gilgen wrote:they tunnelled the exhaust gasses to the beam wing.
So do the exhaust gases pass through the tunnel or don't they?

IMO they never do. The exhausts are ramped and the ramp ends behind the sidepod tunnels. Why would the exhaust gases do a U-turn and go forward, only to U-turn into the tunnel again? Makes no sense.
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Cam
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Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

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gilgen wrote:
raymondu999 wrote:Tunnelled exhaust gases? They tunnelled EXHAUST gases? Are you sure?
Yes. the coanda exhausts onto the rear floor and the airflow around the base of the sidepod, helps draw some hot gasses through the tunnels. Go back on photos of testing, and see where the heat sensors are placed.
Scarbs - always a great read:
The exhaust blows down the tail of the sidepod, over a ramp made to try to attach the exhaust flow to the bodywork via a coanda effect to direct it in the correct gap between the rear tyre and diffuser. This is the same area the teams aimed their exhausts directly at last year. This area helps both seal the diffuser from flow blown laterally from the rear tyres and also the greater mass flow of the exhaust plume creates more flow through the diffuser, with both effects adding downforce. This solution follows the same path as the much applauded Sauber solution. Although the two systems were developed in parallel and RBR did not copy the Sauber after seeing it launch. The RB8 always was planned to run the V2 set up.

To keep the airflow passing over the top and centre of the diffuser, teams direct the fast moving flow from the sidepods undercut to this area. In Red Bulls case, the path of this flow is obstructed by the exhaust ramp and plume. To overcome this Red Bull have simply created a tunnel for the air to pass under the exhaust ramp and remerge towards the centre of the diffuser. This solution looks like is major aim was to direct flow to the start motor hole, an area exploited by ductwork on the 2011 RB7. Having more airflow passing into the starter motor hole, makes the hole act like a blown slot, making the airflow better up and under the middle section of diffuser for more downforce. Creating a crossover effect is somewhat like McLarens bulged exhaust fairing, that allow both the exhaust to be directed down to the diffuser edge by the downwash flow over the sidepod, but also creates a channel beneath the exhaust bulge to allow the undercut flow to reach the centre of the diffuser.
Hope that clears it up.
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raymondu999
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Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

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Yeah I've read that a long while ago, but it still doesn't say that
gilgen wrote:they tunnelled the exhaust gasses to the beam wing.
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wesley123
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Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

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it doesnt. What gilgen is trying to say is that the exhaust and it's position will draw air through the tunnel and help draw exhaust air out of the cooling hole.

While the effect is true, and was used in 2010 for the blown diffusers, I personally think the exhaust is too far away from the cooling exhaust and where this dirty air and air from the tunnel mix. So I dont think hte exhaust has much effect of drawing air through the tunnel
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Cam
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Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

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wesley123 wrote:it doesnt. What gilgen is trying to say is that the exhaust and it's position will draw air through the tunnel and help draw exhaust air out of the cooling hole.

While the effect is true, and was used in 2010 for the blown diffusers, I personally think the exhaust is too far away from the cooling exhaust and where this dirty air and air from the tunnel mix. So I dont think hte exhaust has much effect of drawing air through the tunnel
I don't think that's what gilgen was saying:
gilgen wrote:
raymondu999 wrote:Tunnelled exhaust gases? They tunnelled EXHAUST gases? Are you sure?
Yes. the coanda exhausts onto the rear floor and the airflow around the base of the sidepod, helps draw some hot gasses through the tunnels. Go back on photos of testing, and see where the heat sensors are placed.
The Red Bull does not (to my understanding) flow any exhaust gas through the tunnel (well, none intentionally anyway). Please correct me here if I'm wrong, but I thought the ramp fed the exhaust gases to the diffuser and the tunnel took air from the side pods to the starter motor?
“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.”
― Socrates
Ignorance is a state of being uninformed. Ignorant describes a person in the state of being unaware
who deliberately ignores or disregards important information or facts. © all rights reserved.

aral
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Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

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I was told this by a person with some knowledge of this, and i got it slightly wrong. What is happening is that the tunnels take the sidepod airflow away from the diffuser and to the starter hole, this allows the exhaust gasses to attach themselves to the rear bodywork, aft of the tunnels, so ensuring that it can be utilised on the full width of the beam wing.
If the tunnels were not taking the air from the lower sidepods, then it would push the gasses outwards, providing less effect on the beam wing.
I do trust the source,but cannot explain it as succintly as the informant.

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raymondu999
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Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

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Yup. That I agree with. The exhausts flow along the ramped bodywork by Coanda effect, and the tunnel helps to manage the crossover between exhaust flow and free flow so that they don't interfere with one another.
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