2013 Chinese GP - Shanghai

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MOWOG
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Re: 2013 Chinese GP - Shanghai

Post by MOWOG » Tue Apr 16, 2013 3:10 am

actually should Vettel have pitted for option tires 1 or 2 laps earlier, do you guys think he would have over taken Lewis?
I thought that as well. but Steve Matchett on NBC noted that his lap time had already gone up by 1 sec on the 4th lap, so his option tires were already less than optimal. Had he come in a lap earlier, he might have actually wound up a few seconds adrift of Hamilton after another lap.

One of the drivers (Button?) said during the weekend that the question was how many corners they could get out of the option tires, not how many laps. :cry:

On the one hand, Vettel's late charge was very exciting, but on the other hand, knowing it was all the result of really crappy race rubber made the whole thing sort of artificial. It wasn't like the old days when Michael Schumacher used to go into "stalk mode" and hunt down the leader in the closing laps. It's the difference between reading pulp and reading literature. Some people prefer pulp, but I am not one of them. :-"
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myurr
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Re: 2013 Chinese GP - Shanghai

Post by myurr » Tue Apr 16, 2013 4:06 pm


MOWOG
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Re: 2013 Chinese GP - Shanghai

Post by MOWOG » Tue Apr 16, 2013 5:51 pm

If you pay for my subscription, I will be delighted to read your article. :)
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WhiteBlue
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Re: 2013 Chinese GP - Shanghai

Post by WhiteBlue » Tue Apr 16, 2013 6:12 pm

MOWOG wrote:If you pay for my subscription, I will be delighted to read your article. :)
+1
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Mika1
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Re: 2013 Chinese GP - Shanghai

Post by Mika1 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 6:42 pm

Lewis Hamilton overtakes Jenson Button: http://tinypic.com/player.php?v=35d3p0l&s=6
Last edited by Mika1 on Tue Apr 16, 2013 7:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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henra
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Re: 2013 Chinese GP - Shanghai

Post by henra » Tue Apr 16, 2013 7:24 pm

oT v1 wrote:Anyone else just completely surprised RB didnt go for a more conventional quali and race plan??
Yup. Me too.
On the other hand they almost seemed paranoid especially of the softer tyres.
They were probably too scared.

beelsebob
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Re: 2013 Chinese GP - Shanghai

Post by beelsebob » Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:23 pm

henra wrote:
oT v1 wrote:Anyone else just completely surprised RB didnt go for a more conventional quali and race plan??
Yup. Me too.
On the other hand they almost seemed paranoid especially of the softer tyres.
They were probably too scared.
To be honest, I think it was simple. They didn't feel they had the pace to stick it on pole. They had no knowledge that the Merc's race pace was poor, and because of that, they decided to try something different to see if it would happen to pay out. Personally, I think RedBull probably did better this way than they would have if they'd done it normally.

Kiril Varbanov
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Re: 2013 Chinese GP - Shanghai

Post by Kiril Varbanov » Wed Apr 17, 2013 5:58 am

Alonso has finished the race with some damage, as it seems | via Norm, Miascuderia

Image

raymondu999
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Re: 2013 Chinese GP - Shanghai

Post by raymondu999 » Wed Apr 17, 2013 6:06 am

I agree. Running a few what-if simulations, I think Vettel could have ended up P2 rather than P4.

His main time losses in his strategy was being overtaken by Hulkenberg. Had he stayed ahead of Hulkenberg, he would have had better pace through his first stint as not only would he have been able to run in free air (and gain the downforce benefit of that) but his tyres would also have lasted longer, giving him better end-of-stint pace. Crucially, that would probably have meant he exited the pits ahead of 2-stopping Perez, which would have cost him more time. He would have come out right behind of Hamilton after his final stop - and probably could, in my opinion - have passed Raikkonen and Hamilton with his 4s/lap advantage. At least a P3 was on the cards.
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Sevach
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Re: 2013 Chinese GP - Shanghai

Post by Sevach » Wed Apr 17, 2013 6:59 am

MOWOG wrote:
actually should Vettel have pitted for option tires 1 or 2 laps earlier, do you guys think he would have over taken Lewis?
I thought that as well. but Steve Matchett on NBC noted that his lap time had already gone up by 1 sec on the 4th lap, so his option tires were already less than optimal. Had he come in a lap earlier, he might have actually wound up a few seconds adrift of Hamilton after another lap.

One of the drivers (Button?) said during the weekend that the question was how many corners they could get out of the option tires, not how many laps. :cry:

On the one hand, Vettel's late charge was very exciting, but on the other hand, knowing it was all the result of really crappy race rubber made the whole thing sort of artificial. It wasn't like the old days when Michael Schumacher used to go into "stalk mode" and hunt down the leader in the closing laps. It's the difference between reading pulp and reading literature. Some people prefer pulp, but I am not one of them. :-"
Button made them last just fine for 6 laps, in fact his fastest lap was on lap 56 (38.0 to Vettel's fastest lap of the race 36.8) so he still had good life on those tyres.
Vettel drove those 4 laps on the limit, Button probably not so much (still fast he had to take Massa) so we are looking at 3 x 6 vs 4 x 4.
Considering that he would've come out of the pits a bit closer as well (he was losing a bit of time to Kimi and Hamilton on older tires)it seems like the way to go to me.

henra
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Re: 2013 Chinese GP - Shanghai

Post by henra » Wed Apr 17, 2013 5:52 pm

beelsebob wrote: To be honest, I think it was simple. They didn't feel they had the pace to stick it on pole. They had no knowledge that the Merc's race pace was poor, and because of that, they decided to try something different to see if it would happen to pay out.
I agree.
Personally, I think RedBull probably did better this way than they would have if they'd done it normally.
I'm somewhat torn on this question. Running in the midfield battling (with full fuel load) against other cars that are 0,5 - 1s slower as per their design doesn't help matters. That way you get stuck behind the Perez's and others. They are not that much slower that you annihilate them, so you get stuck behind and have to kill the tyres to overtake them and lose excessive time to the front runners. Catching up again once you passed the midfielders kills your tyres again. So you're somewhere between a rock and a hard place.

That said the big question mark is what the RB would have done to the Softs with full fuel had they run a 'conventional' strategy. It seems that was a major consderation of RB.
Last edited by henra on Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Nomore
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Re: 2013 Chinese GP - Shanghai

Post by Nomore » Wed Apr 17, 2013 6:57 pm

That said the big question mark is what the RB would have done to the Softs with full fuel had they run a 'conventional' strategy. It seems that was a major consderation of RB
It's an open debate. My personal opinion is they would be qualified at best 5th or 6th (according to Vettel : Mercedes & Ferraris were unreachable in their quali trim) and a podium finish almost guaranteed.
I'm quite convinced that they have left Shanghai thinking...we could have done better.

Gridlock
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Re: 2013 Chinese GP - Shanghai

Post by Gridlock » Wed Apr 17, 2013 7:55 pm

I think they thought they could drive to the podium from P9, and maybe to the win, and were nearly proved right.

That this season hasn't become 2011 (yet) is the main reason I still might buy Pirelli tyres.
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Vasconia
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Re: 2013 Chinese GP - Shanghai

Post by Vasconia » Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:29 am

Nomore wrote:
That said the big question mark is what the RB would have done to the Softs with full fuel had they run a 'conventional' strategy. It seems that was a major consderation of RB
It's an open debate. My personal opinion is they would be qualified at best 5th or 6th (according to Vettel : Mercedes & Ferraris were unreachable in their quali trim) and a podium finish almost guaranteed.
I'm quite convinced that they have left Shanghai thinking...we could have done better.
I am quite sure that Webber thinks exactly this. :mrgreen:

Juzh
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Re: 2013 Chinese GP - Shanghai

Post by Juzh » Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:57 am

Gridlock wrote:I think they thought they could drive to the podium from P9, and maybe to the win, and were nearly proved right.

That this season hasn't become 2011 (yet) is the main reason I still might buy Pirelli tyres.
quite true what you said about tyres. If this were 2010's bridgestones, or even 2011 pirellis, vettel would most likely had 75 in the bag by now. Its really annoying how much they have to compromise on setup just to be able to finish the race on reasonable pace.