Built but unraced Formula 1 cars

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter does not belong here.
Blackout
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Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 3:12 am

Re: Built but unraced Formula 1 cars

Post by Blackout » Sat Aug 03, 2013 8:55 pm

Never heard about these! they look very nice and interesting too

wesley123
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Re: Built but unraced Formula 1 cars

Post by wesley123 » Sat Aug 03, 2013 9:22 pm

beelsebob wrote:
Huntresa wrote: Wasnt it cause they couldnt get the stable exhaust flow they could in 2011 so it made stuff more unstable then gains.
I'm not sure I'm convinced by that – if that were true, why would they position them there in the first place?

That said, I have no knowledge either way.
From what I've read it simply was because of the sensitivity of the design, it relies on throttle input to deliver full downforce. So with that out of the way it was less sensitive to difference in throttle position.

Afaik teams already placed the exhausts out of the diffuser, but were kept in the same area(like eixiting it on the trailing edge of the diffuser).

Then in 1998 Ferrari came and completely changed the exhaust position. This was mostly packaging and the engine liking the shorter exhaust better. I have also read somewhere that Ferrari had tried the same short exhaust but exiting over the floor for the downforce advantage. However it was found that it gave problems with the heat on the materials, so they chose to exit it over the sidepod.
"Bite my shiny metal ass" - Bender

SiLo
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Re: Built but unraced Formula 1 cars

Post by SiLo » Sun Aug 04, 2013 1:19 am

After that didn't they all start blowing the rear wing?
Felipe Baby!

Henning
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Location: Kent, England

Re: Built but unraced Formula 1 cars

Post by Henning » Mon Aug 12, 2013 2:21 pm

stefan_ wrote:
...<snip>...

2010 Toyota TF110
The Toyota TF110 was an un-raced, prototype Formula One car designed by Toyota Racing for the 2010 Formula One season. The car had been designed, and two chassis produced before Toyota officially decided to pull out of Formula One at the end of the 2009 Formula One season. One chassis was damaged by former team principal John Howett, while the other was used for a shakedown test. Various teams have attempted to purchase the chassis.

...<snip>...
How and what did the team principle do to the chassis?

timbo
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Re: Built but unraced Formula 1 cars

Post by timbo » Mon Aug 12, 2013 8:07 pm

Henning wrote:
stefan_ wrote:
...<snip>...

2010 Toyota TF110
The Toyota TF110 was an un-raced, prototype Formula One car designed by Toyota Racing for the 2010 Formula One season. The car had been designed, and two chassis produced before Toyota officially decided to pull out of Formula One at the end of the 2009 Formula One season. One chassis was damaged by former team principal John Howett, while the other was used for a shakedown test. Various teams have attempted to purchase the chassis.

...<snip>...
AFAIK it was demorun gone bad.

How and what did the team principle do to the chassis?

Giando
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Re: Built but unraced Formula 1 cars

Post by Giando » Sat Aug 17, 2013 9:21 am

Very nice thread.

I would like to add a couple of interesting Ferrari cars that never raced.

The first one was a test car built in the summer of 1988 to test the new aspirated 3,500 V12 engine for the following season on a F187/88c chassis (a turbo engine car).

Image

The photo shows brazilian tester Roberto Moreno at the wheel driving this at-the-time-called 'ibrida' (hybrid) car on the Fiorano track.

It possibly mounted an early prototype of the semi-automatic gearbox which will be featured in the next un-raced singleseater, the Ferrari 639. But for sure it also was equipped with a classic longitudinal mechanical gearbox.
Last edited by Giando on Sun Aug 18, 2013 4:20 am, edited 6 times in total.

Giando
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Re: Built but unraced Formula 1 cars

Post by Giando » Sat Aug 17, 2013 9:32 am

Another very famous unraced Ferrari is the 639, the first prototype designed by John Barnard for the Maranello Team.
It was hugely tested between July 1988 and June 1989.

It was equipped with the very first revolutionary semi automatic gearbox and you can clearly see that its concept hugely anticipated the definitive beautiful 640 (also known as F1/89) that raced the '89 season and won the first race in Brasil with Mansell, the Hungarian gp again with Mansell and the Portuguese gp with Gerhard Berger.

The 639 had been driven by testers Dario Benuzzi, Roberto Moreno, J.J. Lehto and the official drivers Mansell and Berger.

Among its feature, a 620hp V12 3,5 litres, while the front suspensions didn't have the torsion bars as the 640.

Image

It didn't mounted rearview mirrors until it was brought in Estoril in December 1988 for an official FIA test session.

Between may and june 1989, J.J. Lehto also tested a special modified version of this 639 equipped with a 6 speed manual mechanical gearbox: the semiautomatic gearbox mounted on the 640 had terrible reliability problems and a part of the team, headed by Enzo Ferrari's son Piero Lardi, was against John Barnard (who in fact eventually left the team in July), and pushed to throw that innovation away trying to demonstrate that a mechanical gearbox would have been better. John Barnard was so convinced that his solution was the right one that he designed the 640 in a way that would have been virtually impossible to mount a gearbox command on the left of the driver inside the cockpit, so they had to use a 639 to try that experiment.

Considering how that technology spread both in car racing and on normal road cars... well we can really say mr. John Barnard was f***ing right and his perseverance changed car racing and car technology forever. What a genius!
Last edited by Giando on Sat Aug 17, 2013 9:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

marcush.
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Re: Built but unraced Formula 1 cars

Post by marcush. » Sat Aug 17, 2013 9:37 am

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Last edited by marcush. on Sat Aug 17, 2013 9:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

Giando
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Re: Built but unraced Formula 1 cars

Post by Giando » Sat Aug 17, 2013 9:46 am

Thanks Marcush i was having some problems when posting images by my iPad. Much appreciated.

The last image shows on top Berger in the 640 and below Mansell in the 639. So you can see evolution and refinements of the same concept after 8 months of wind tunnel testing (at the time there were rumours that the 639 hadn't even been tested in the wind tunnel!).

marcush.
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Re: Built but unraced Formula 1 cars

Post by marcush. » Sat Aug 17, 2013 9:58 am

Image

I think the top car in this picture is the 639 though...no mirrors,cockpit ,tranition towards the engine air inlets etc..

some more unraced beauties...
http://mcsatorna.hu/hirek/2013_01_23_ve ... tek-2-resz

Giando
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Re: Built but unraced Formula 1 cars

Post by Giando » Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:14 am

marcush. wrote:http://mcsatorna.hu/webimages/2009/01/1989ferr.jpg

I think the top car in this picture is the 639 though...no mirrors,cockpit ,tranition towards the engine air inlets etc..

some more unraced beauties...
http://mcsatorna.hu/hirek/2013_01_23_ve ... tek-2-resz
I can guarantee the top one is the 640! I draw that car a million times eheh... and you can tell by the more refined aerodynamics... trust me (640 it's my favourite car ever LOL). :-)

Giando
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Re: Built but unraced Formula 1 cars

Post by Giando » Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:21 am

And here is the Williams Fw11c, mounting the Judd v8 instead of the Honda v6 turbo. Testing car for late 1987.

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Last edited by Giando on Sun Aug 18, 2013 4:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

marcush.
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Re: Built but unraced Formula 1 cars

Post by marcush. » Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:29 am

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Prost AP05 ...not completed -did they even build the tub?

xpensive
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Re: Built but unraced Formula 1 cars

Post by xpensive » Sat Aug 17, 2013 11:28 am

639 or 640, still a most beautiful car, in particular the absence of the horrid scoop that followed, surely John left because of it.
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

Giando
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Re: Built but unraced Formula 1 cars

Post by Giando » Sun Aug 18, 2013 4:24 am

marcush. wrote:http://forix.autosport.com/8w/6thgear/prost-ap05.jpg
Prost AP05 ...not completed -did they even build the tub?
Found this photo and they said that the Prost GP team just build this 1/2 scale model for wind tunnel testing

Image