F1technical.net

The ERS system will provide the car 161bhp. At 161bhp the driver has 33.3 seconds per lap of extra power. The interesting thing is this can be changed to 80.5bhp for 66.6 seconds or 40.25bhp for 133.2 seconds, etc etc. So I'm wondering what's everyone's thoughts on how teams might choose to implement the ERS power? Obviously it will be track dependent as the lengths of circuits vary, but teams have the choice of less power for more of the lap or more power for less of the lap. I wonder if(not sure it's legal) teams will have different ERS maps the driver can choose depending on the situation be it more or less power for the allotted amount of time. Thoughts?

i am wondering how will ERS be activated?

radosav wrote:i am wondering how will ERS be activated?

driver pedal position

33.3 seconds is quite a lot of time for any lap on the current F1 calendar so I'd be surprised if they ventured away from maximum power, unless they have a high downforce producing car and start to use ERS during the cornering phase. That would be interesting...

Also remember that energy recovered using the MGU-H can be sent directly to the MGU-K.

Crucial_Xtreme wrote:The ERS system will provide the car 161bhp. At 161bhp the driver has 33.3 seconds per lap of extra power.

Why only 33 seconds? I may be missing something, but the H can supply unlimited power to the K, so it could be extra 161bhp for the whole lap.

Just remember that to have 161 hp for 33.33 sec you need 4MJ. And the MGU-K is only allowed to store 2MJ. This means that the MGU-H needs to store the 2 remaining MJ. So sending power directly from the MGU-H to the MGU-K would be whatever excess of the 2MJ the MGU-H can harvest. And I don't even know if the MGU-H is able of harvesting 2MJ alone.

Your first priority would be to send the power from the MGU-H to the battery. Because the MGU-H is only at about 90 kw I think somebody mentioned. This is "only" 120 hp then if you transfer it directly to the MGU-K. So you would rather send this to the energy storage so that you can use it as 161 hp the next lap.

90 kW for the MGU-H we were shown is not fixed
and antway is presumably a continuous rating, not a hard limit
ie for much of the WOT time more than 90 kW would be possible (so thermally equivalent to 90 kW continuously)

and there's nothing to prevent 90(+) kW from the MGU-H being used simultaneously with power from storage
so 120 kW would be available to the MGU-K most of the 60-70% WOT time ?
for use as desired

ok, it's all nice but if there would be no ERS activation button, how would you program the ECU - how to properly distribute those 33 secs avaliable during the lap? Which factors/sensors would ECU considering for ERS activation?
If it's activated only by the ECU, then it could not be used as an overtaking aid ( like KERS now ) ? I feel like I'm missing something here

kalinka wrote:ok, it's all nice but if there would be no ERS activation button, how would you program the ECU - how to properly distribute those 33 secs avaliable during the lap? Which factors/sensors would ECU considering for ERS activation?
If it's activated only by the ECU, then it could not be used as an overtaking aid ( like KERS now ) ? I feel like I'm missing something here

I would imagine it would have something to do with the pedal position of the accelerator (as mentioned above) and speed. Of course, for some circuits the ERS map would have to be altered as the driver won't want the additional power through fast, flat out corners.

I may be incorrect here but there's always the possibility of having ERS active all the time as soon as the accelerator pedal is pressed. The output power could then ramp up as speed increases.

Here's an example: the driver exits the corner and gradually increases throttle application. The ERS output gradually increases at a desired rate (not necessarily linear), as the rules allow for a smaller amount of power for a longer duration.

Does that make any sense, because I'm not sure!

theWPTformula wrote:I may be incorrect here but there's always the possibility of having ERS active all the time as soon as the accelerator pedal is pressed. The output power could then ramp up as speed increases.

Surely that would be the easiest way to do it. Teams could tweak the power vs throttle position map for each circuit based on WOT time and, like you mentioned, flat corners, and be done with it.

theWPTformula wrote: ....... ERS active all the time as soon as the accelerator pedal is pressed. The output power could then ramp up as speed increases.
........ The ERS output gradually increases at a desired rate

AFAIK that's what these rules are all about ....
seamless 'recovered' power

But why then the 33sec rule ? The amount of energy storage is already restricted, so you can't abuse the rule and run max ERS for the whole lap.
Is there a possibility for the driver to "tune" the ERS use level during the lap by a switch? For example there are some tracks where you can do your best racing laps by distributing the ERS during the lap, but at the race, sometimes you want it to kick in at the start-finish straight, and use all the power it can, because later you can't overtake ( like Hungaroring for ex.)?

kalinka wrote:But why then the 33sec rule ? The amount of energy storage is already restricted, so you can't abuse the rule and run max ERS for the whole lap.
Is there a possibility for the driver to "tune" the ERS use level during the lap by a switch? For example there are some tracks where you can do your best racing laps by distributing the ERS during the lap, but at the race, sometimes you want it to kick in at the start-finish straight, and use all the power it can, because later you can't overtake ( like Hungaroring for ex.)?

There is no 33s rule.

The MGU-K can send up to 2MJ per lap to the ES (I think we saw that may be a struggle on some circuits in another thread). The ES can send up to 4MJ per lap to the MGU-K. The maximum power that can be used for the MGU-K is 120kW.

So, 4MJ/120kW = 33s. But, they don't have to use 120kW all the time. And at full throttle it is likely that a large proportion of the 120kW will be coming directly from the MGU-H.

Holm86 wrote:Just remember that to have 161 hp for 33.33 sec you need 4MJ. And the MGU-K is only allowed to store 2MJ. This means that the MGU-H needs to store the 2 remaining MJ. So sending power directly from the MGU-H to the MGU-K would be whatever excess of the 2MJ the MGU-H can harvest. And I don't even know if the MGU-H is able of harvesting 2MJ alone.

Your first priority would be to send the power from the MGU-H to the battery. Because the MGU-H is only at about 90 kw I think somebody mentioned. This is "only" 120 hp then if you transfer it directly to the MGU-K. So you would rather send this to the energy storage so that you can use it as 161 hp the next lap.

In sending power from the MGU-H via the battery you lose a little because of losses incurred when storing the energy and losses incurred when extracting the energy.

Renault's press blurb specified MGU-H recovered energy as greater than 2MJ. Remember that over a 100s lap that is an average of 20kW, Over a 70s lap, it is 28.5kW.

Obviously some tracks (Monaco) well have less and others (Spa) will have more.