Ferrari F14T

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter does not belong here.
langwadt
langwadt
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Re: Ferrari F14T

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ecapox wrote:
neilbah wrote:Re the sound entering pits,

could the turbo be discharging the stored energy from the kers to make it safe in the pits?
most road cars probably dont idle as high as an F1 car so shutting off the engine the turbo would not be spinning so fast?
for turbo to spool down like that then all restriction must be removed surely so im guessing the compressor side is bypassing throttles and the lack of back pressure with the short and large bore exhaust helps but maybe a clutch is being disengaged on the exhaust side too?
I bet you are right. Throttles open or bypassed and stored energy is discharged by spooling turbo. I'm assuming that the oil pumps would have to be runningas well in order to lubricate the turbo during this brief discharge.

Very rarely do you hear a turbo spinningso quickly without the engine running pretty hard as well.
A normally a turbo has a lot less inertia, it doesn't have the inertia of the substantial chuck of magnets rotating
in the MGU-H

though it is maybe a bit surprising that they don't have some sort of shut-down program that slows down the MGU-H before they stop the ICE since that it mechanically linked to the oil pump

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Dream Theater
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Re: Ferrari F14T

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Someone said that the monkey seat today was on the car again, this photo confirms that:

Image

Rob#51
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Re: Ferrari F14T

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iHpled wrote:
Sevach wrote:I'm surprised that this car still doesn't have a monkey seat...
Yeah kinda weird, but i think Ferrari is opting for a total different approach. They try to be as efficient as they can for optimal perfomance in the race. Whereas Mercedes is going for the max performance over 1 lap, kinda the redbull strategy. That being said, a monkey seat gives performance, but also a lot of drag so not so efficient performance?

But thats my view, maybe they are developing a better one. We will see.

But, is there much need, apart from quali to have a quick car over 1 lap this year? as no one will be able to fully exploit the true pace during the race.

Anon123
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Re: Ferrari F14T

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scuderia rob wrote:
iHpled wrote:
Sevach wrote:I'm surprised that this car still doesn't have a monkey seat...
Yeah kinda weird, but i think Ferrari is opting for a total different approach. They try to be as efficient as they can for optimal perfomance in the race. Whereas Mercedes is going for the max performance over 1 lap, kinda the redbull strategy. That being said, a monkey seat gives performance, but also a lot of drag so not so efficient performance?

But thats my view, maybe they are developing a better one. We will see.

But, is there much need, apart from quali to have a quick car over 1 lap this year? as no one will be able to fully exploit the true pace during the race.
Ted Kravitz said yesterday that on race sims for the Merc powered teams at least the drivers didn't have to save that much fuel, it was pretty much a case of save fuel for a couple of laps then drive as you would. Having a quick car over one lap will also be useful if your in a bit of traffic, you don't want to be burning up fuel trying to get past another driver.

wesley123
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Re: Ferrari F14T

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el-Magico wrote:Is it allowed to remove the gurney flap on the rear wing, lets say during a pitstop?

Edit: add rear wing
I believe they are. But doubt it will be worth it, since it will take longer than the normal 3 second stops
"Bite my shiny metal ass" - Bender

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Mr.G
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Re: Ferrari F14T

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Maxion wrote: AFAIK the oil pumps aren't moving with the engine turned off as they have to be mechanically linked to the ICE.
You're right, partially, see bellow.
langwadt wrote: A normally a turbo has a lot less inertia, it doesn't have the inertia of the substantial chuck of magnets rotating
in the MGU-H


though it is maybe a bit surprising that they don't have some sort of shut-down program that slows down the MGU-H before they stop the ICE since that it mechanically linked to the oil pump
You're partially right. Regarding to 5.2.4 MGU-H may be clutched, so they can separate the MGU-H from turbo and there will be more less the same inertia as in "regular" turbo.

Here my idea (not sure if they do that). If they want to burn the energy with turbo I think they can. Regarding 5.13 the pumps must be mechanically driven from engine and/or MGU-K. That given, they can in fact burn more energy at once - they keep MGU-H spin the engine on neutral, to keep pumps running to ensure lubrication and cooling and that way keep MGU-H spin the turbo.
F1 Regulations 2014 wrote:5.2.4 The MGU-H must be solely mechanically linked to the exhaust turbine of a pressure charging system. This mechanical link must be of fixed speed ratio to the exhaust turbine and may be clutched.

5.13 Engine ancillaries :
All coolant pumps, oil pumps, scavenge pumps, oil/air separators, hydraulic pumps and fuel pumps delivering more than 10bar must be mechanically driven directly from the engine and/or MGU-K with a fixed speed ratio.
Art without engineering is dreaming. Engineering without art is calculating. Steven K. Roberts

Ganxxta
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Re: Ferrari F14T

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According to Teds Notebook on Sky Sports F1 there is a rumor that Ferrari is needing (way) more fuel than at least Mercedes, Alonso apparently said they are intensively looking into fuel saving for starts, pit stops, and during the driving itself.

Not sure how much difference there can be with the tight regulations for the engines in fuel consumption, but this sounds a bit worrying...
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62XbiAUDq6o[/youtube]

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scuderiafan
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My hopes were high in Jerez, but now I'm concerned. At this point I don't think Ferrari's sandbagging, they're keeping quiet, trying not to draw attention to the fact that their car burns too much fuel. I can understand if their pace on a stint is slower because their trying to save gas, but if they can't get a qualifying pace going, they're going to be lagging behind Merc and McLaren.
Last edited by scuderiafan on Sun Mar 02, 2014 4:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"You're so angry that you throw your gloves down, and the worst part is; you have to pick them up again." - Steve Matchett

Patiently waiting...

bhall
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Re: Ferrari F14T

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el-Magico wrote:Is it allowed to remove the gurney flap on the rear wing, lets say during a pitstop?

Edit: add rear wing
Yep. Parc fermé ends the moment the race starts. From then, teams can do whatever they want to the car as long as it conforms to the technical regulations.

The constraint, of course, is time. But, since Gurney flaps are often just taped onto the wing, they're rather easy to remove.

max_speed
max_speed
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Re: Ferrari F14T

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scuderiafan wrote:My hopes were high in Jerez, but now I'm concerned. At this point I don't think Ferrari's sandbagging, their keeping quiet, trying not to draw attention to the fact that their car burns too much fuel. I can understand if their pace on a stint is slower because their trying to save gas, but if they can't get a qualifying pace going, they're going to be lagging behind Merc and McLaren.
that is my concern too now. i suspect tht PU is as strong as mercedes but may be more thristy..it ws quite evident from long runs too , initially alonso ws lapping 2 seconds slower but when fuels loads came down, he picked up pace and was operating at the level of merc, williams. i do not know how easy it will be to solve this kinda problem

bhall
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Re: Ferrari F14T

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How can an engine with capped fuel-flow use more fuel than other engines subject to the same cap? Is the Ferrari engine really so utterly weak that Alonso and Raikkonen have to continually drive flat-out, even through corners, to keep up the pace?

Or is this just another headline-grabbing rumor in the same vein as Mercedes' mythical 100-bhp advantage?

max_speed
max_speed
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bhallg2k wrote:How can an engine with capped fuel-flow use more fuel than other engines subject to the same cap? Is the Ferrari engine really so utterly weak that Alonso and Raikkonen have to continually drive flat-out, even through corners, to keep up the pace?

Or is this just another headline-grabbing rumor in the same vein as Mercedes' mythical 100-bhp advantage?
i dnt know..ferrari has confused me big time. on one hand u see marussia posting 1.37.X and button even praising them for nice effort they have put in on the other hand ferrari has never ventured into 1.33.X territory. i always thought that they vl try a quali sim but if yesterday's time indicate quali sim then tere are reasons to worry, let other senior members to throw some light wht is actually happening..even all analysts are confused.. if engine is weak i dnt think luca will be smiling.

bhall
bhall
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Re: Ferrari F14T

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The only way to use more fuel this year is to stay on the throttle longer, because all engines will use the same amount of fuel from 10,500-15,000 RPM regardless of the power produced. Fuel-flow in that range is capped at 100kg/hour in the regulations.

Now, it will be the case on some circuits that teams will have to back off the throttle occasionally during the race in order to comply with the regulation that limits overall fuel consumption to 100kg. It won't be necessary at every circuit, but when it is, it will affect all teams. In that way, it won't be very different from the tire-saving strategies we've seen over the last couple of years.

Incidentally, Bahrain is likely to be one of those circuits given its acceleration-heavy layout of slow corners and fast straights. These 2012 figures from Renault support that.
tim|away wrote:[...](source)

Image

[...]
Try not to fall for the rumors spread by the "specialized press," guys. More often than not, they're just looking for attention.

timbo
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Ganxxta wrote:According to Teds Notebook on Sky Sports F1 there is a rumor that Ferrari is needing (way) more fuel than at least Mercedes, Alonso apparently said they are intensively looking into fuel saving for starts, pit stops, and during the driving itself.

Not sure how much difference there can be with the tight regulations for the engines in fuel consumption, but this sounds a bit worrying...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62XbiAUDq6o
I watched this and I don't think I read it that way. The fact that they practice fuel-saving during start procedure, pit-stops etc does not imply automatically they have fuel consumption problem (which they may have of course). The new regs allow to use 100kg/hr max and 100kg per race. As races most of the time last longer than an hour, and tracks usually have pretty high per cent of full-throttle, you HAVE to safe fuel at some point. It would be dumb not to save few grams of fuel during pit-stop as it could be used on track. I am sure everybody is practicing stuff that Alonso mentioned.

As for their pace, yeah, it's difficult to read. Well, at least they report good correlation so there are good news.

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Gilles 27
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Too early to' saying Ferrari has more consumption as Mercedes... Rumors damn rumors, until now we still don't have a pictures from Ferraris PU, and the Italian stay muted like never before to give information or pictures to the multimedias.