Mercedes AMG F1 W05

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oT v1
oT v1
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W05

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l4mbch0ps wrote:Yes, the silver bullet thing is definitely a media focus I think. Obviously there have been times in F1 history where 1 major difference has provided a huge advantage - silver bullet as they say. The double diffuser that Brawn brought in I think is a good example of that.

This Mercedes though, like you are all saying is just developed to a higher level more generally than that. A lot of their advantages are derived from complimentary engineering that is derived from their engine/chassis development integration and what has clearly been an overall development pace advantage during the lead up to the introduction of the new engines. No one piece makes the lions share of the advantage (except, arguably the engine) but each area works together as a whole which provides obvious performance advantages to the rest of the field.
Their tyre life was incredible as well (not talking about Russia), i think they were always the last to pit on the first stint in every race, all the while going 0.5-1sec quicker than everyone else :shock:
The Power of Dreams

prince
prince
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W05

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Now here is some serious news.... [Via Autosport.com]

The word on the street - whether through the paddock grapevine or via engineers who have switched camps and spilled the beans on what's really going on at Merc's power-unit HQ in Brixworth - is that the German make could be even further ahead next year than this.

Engineers suggest that Mercedes' energy recovery systems are not actually the best on the grid, so it knows it has plenty of room for improvement in that area during the window for developments this winter.

Furthermore, potentially bigger gains could come from its exhausts. The concept used by the German car manufacturer this year did not deliver maximum power and, because it has managed to make improvements elsewhere in terms of aerodynamic compromises and weight saving, it could unleash a better system in 2015 to lift its horsepower even more.
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Engine chief Andy Cowell told me after Abu Dhabi: "The way the sporting regulations have been set up, throughout the year, you develop and at the start of the next year you introduce a big upgrade. It's a big list of development opportunities.

"I'm sure Renault and Ferrari will be working as hard as we have. And so we have to make as big a step as we can."

The talk of Mercedes pushing hard will only add to the concern that some of its rivals have already. If you speak in private to rival team members, there are fears that the German behemoth could be unleashing as much as 70bhp more than it has at the moment.

Red Bull boss Christian Horner refused to expand on how big a leap he expected his engine supplier Renault to make in comparison to Mercedes, but was aware that the possibility was there for things to be even worse for his team next year than they have been in 2014.

"I think if you believe the numbers that are floating around, the gap could actually grow rather than diminish," he says. "It would be rather depressing if that were the case."
:o :o :o

http://plus.autosport.com/premium/featu ... 1410944383

emaren
emaren
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W05

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IF Mercedes find an extra 70hp, do we all really think that everyone else will have stood still ?

It seems that both Renault and Ferrari went for a different approach and as such they may have been down on power or down on recovery.

Because of the rules, they had no ability to RACE anything different all year, but like Mercedes and Honda, you can bet they have spent all year running the 2015 engines while all the time looking at the competition. There is no doubt that Ferrari and Renault will have found a whole heap of 'missing' power and recovery potential while racing the 2014 engines.

I would expect that the gap will narrow in 2015 regardless of the rumoured 50/60/70/100/eleventy hp that Mercedes are able to add for next year.

OO7
OO7
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W05

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prince wrote:Now here is some serious news.... [Via Autosport.com]

The word on the street - whether through the paddock grapevine or via engineers who have switched camps and spilled the beans on what's really going on at Merc's power-unit HQ in Brixworth - is that the German make could be even further ahead next year than this.

Engineers suggest that Mercedes' energy recovery systems are not actually the best on the grid, so it knows it has plenty of room for improvement in that area during the window for developments this winter.

Furthermore, potentially bigger gains could come from its exhausts. The concept used by the German car manufacturer this year did not deliver maximum power and, because it has managed to make improvements elsewhere in terms of aerodynamic compromises and weight saving, it could unleash a better system in 2015 to lift its horsepower even more.
.
..
...
Engine chief Andy Cowell told me after Abu Dhabi: "The way the sporting regulations have been set up, throughout the year, you develop and at the start of the next year you introduce a big upgrade. It's a big list of development opportunities.

"I'm sure Renault and Ferrari will be working as hard as we have. And so we have to make as big a step as we can."

The talk of Mercedes pushing hard will only add to the concern that some of its rivals have already. If you speak in private to rival team members, there are fears that the German behemoth could be unleashing as much as 70bhp more than it has at the moment.

Red Bull boss Christian Horner refused to expand on how big a leap he expected his engine supplier Renault to make in comparison to Mercedes, but was aware that the possibility was there for things to be even worse for his team next year than they have been in 2014.

"I think if you believe the numbers that are floating around, the gap could actually grow rather than diminish," he says. "It would be rather depressing if that were the case."
:o :o :o

http://plus.autosport.com/premium/featu ... 1410944383
I gather that the gains from the exhaust will come from switching to equal length manifolds, rather than continuing with the log system currently employed.

If Mercedes' ERS system is not the best on the grid, it begs the question, who's is?

mrluke
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W05

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Apparently Renaults recovery system is the best.

I like how at the start of the year it was rumoured Merc were 100hp up on everybody else, this was greeted incredulously and the Merc PU turned out to be dominant. Now there is a rumoured 60/70 hp to add over the winter break and once again nobody believes it is possible.

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Juzh
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W05

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mrluke wrote:Apparently Renaults recovery system is the best.
Source?

henra
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W05

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mrluke wrote:Apparently Renaults recovery system is the best.
I doubt it. The gap between Merc and the rest was ususally significantly bigger in the Race than in Quali. In Quali you can start with a fully pre- charged Battery. This might be a clue that Merc's recovery was potentially rather better than Ferrari's and Renault's,

mrluke
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W05

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Juzh wrote:
mrluke wrote:Apparently Renaults recovery system is the best.
Source?
I think it was racecar engineering but Id need to read through to check.

Anyway I think we can agree its unlikely Ferrari have the best ERS system ;)

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SiLo
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W05

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The gap should diminish, it's the law of diminishing returns.
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Raleigh
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W05

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SiLo wrote:The gap should diminish, it's the law of diminishing returns.
That assumes Mercedes has hit the point of diminishing returns...

Harsha
Harsha
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W05

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SiLo wrote:The gap should diminish, it's the law of diminishing returns.
The Gap will reduce but it wont diminish that quickly atleast not before 2015 end considering in 2016 big rule changes in engine development was forced to stop Mercs.

giantfan10
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W05

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Harsha wrote:
SiLo wrote:The gap should diminish, it's the law of diminishing returns.
The Gap will reduce but it wont diminish that quickly atleast not before 2015 end considering in 2016 big rule changes in engine development was forced to stop Mercs.
there were no rule changes forced to stop mercedes...get your facts right
the reality is this... right now a UNANIMOUS vote is needed to change any of the the engine freeze rules
in 2016 a MAJORITY vote is needed to change any of the Pu freeze rules
that was all agreed to before the beginning of the 2014 season.
what Renault and Ferrari are saying is this: we want to be able to modify our engines to a limited extent during the season along with the almost 50 percent we are already allowed to modify the engine in the offseason because the way it is now is assinine at best.Mercedes of course want no part of losing their obvious advantage and said no.
Ferrari and Renault replied well when 2016 comes around we will have the votes to completely do away with ANY restrictions on Pu develpment for that season and reignite an engine war..

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Thunder
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W05

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I wonder what Ferrari and Renault will do if they get their free Engine Development for 2016 and Merc still builds the best PU's.
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giantfan10
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W05

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Thunders wrote:I wonder what Ferrari and Renault will do if they get their free Engine Development for 2016 and Merc still builds the best PU's.
they will be able to refine their engines till they get it right in season .

laMirabeau
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W05

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Harsha wrote:
SiLo wrote:The gap should diminish, it's the law of diminishing returns.
The Gap will reduce but it wont diminish that quickly atleast not before 2015 end considering in 2016 big rule changes in engine development was forced to stop Mercs.
Long time lurker and first post. Please be nice to me. :)

As the rules for engine freezing goes, the opportunity to do any modification to MERCEDES, RENAULT and FERRARI is only that they can change around 50% for this year (via tokens, not sure how exactly that works).
Is that sufficient enough for RENAULT AND FERRARI to close the current gap to MERCEDES?
If Mercedes indeed, like the rumors are flowing, gain more for next year, what is the opportunity for others to catch up?
I believe some of these are the questions, which is prompting other manufacturers to fight and get a free hand for development.
The law of diminishing returns would naturally apply after most of the areas of development are exhausted and not at the beginning of a process.