## Williams FW36 Mercedes

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
henra
henra
53
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2012 6:34 pm

### Re: Williams FW36 Pre-launch Speculation

miguelalvesreis wrote: After the exhaust pipe end you have a "invisible cilinder" with r=30mm that extends upon 600mm rearward of rear wheels axis where no part of the car shall exist.
And now for some nitpicking.
The Diameter of this virtual cylinder has to be 30mm bigger than the diamter of the exhaust pipe
So, you can have a monkey seat below or above that cilinder
It may be as close as 15mm below the lower end of a virual cylinder extending from and in line with the exhaust pipe.
So the drawing doesn't seem to be too far off.

Tatsu333
Tatsu333
0
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2011 5:32 pm

### Re: Williams FW36 Pre-launch Speculation

beelsebob wrote:
astracrazy wrote:where the exhaust has to be is further forward than you'd expect. I'd say its right from what you see
The tail light must be placed at least 595mm behind the rear wheel centre line, so you're talking about the exhaust being 5mm behind the tail light, and hence behind almost all of the rear wing structure (likely only end plates behind there) The exhaust being in front of the monkey seat is deffinately not allowed.

Also, the box for the monkey seat begins at 500mm behind the rear wheel centre line – so we're deffinately talking about 10cm behind the monkey seat here.
From what I understand from article 5.8.4d, the exhaust must "Be positioned in order that the entire circumference of the exit of the tailpipe lies between two vertical planes normal to the car centre line and which lie between 170mm and 185mm rearward of the rear wheel centre line", so the exhaust exit is at least 410mm ahead of the taillight (595mm - 185mm).

That said, why is the position of the taillight a determining factor here, when we're talking about bodywork?

Article 3.10.4 allows bodywork more than 500mm behind the rear wheel centre line but within 75mm of the car's centre line to be between 200 and 400mm above the reference plane, and nothing in article 14.5 (about the tail light) says that bodywork can not lie behind the point at which it is mounted, as long as it is "clearly visible from the rear." Since the tail light is centred at 300mm (+/- 5mm) above the reference plane, it need not have a significant bearing on the monkey seat.

It is absolutely possible to have a monkey seat directly behind the lower 50mm of the exhaust exit, as long as it is far enough rearward. The effectiveness of it from an exhaust-blowing perspective obviously diminishes the further away from the exit it is, which is the idea behind the bodywork exclusion zone in 5.8.5 (a right circular cylinder, 30mm greater diameter than the exhaust exit, on-axis with the last 150mm of the exhaust pipe, extending as far rearward as 600mm behind the rear wheel centre line). Note, as a couple of others have posted above, that the exclusion zone's end-point in terms of length is not changed by the exhaust exit position - it "...extends rearwards as far as a point 600mm behind the rear wheel centre line...", so you could have bodywork as close as 415mm behind the exhaust exit, both above and below the tail light, between 200 and 400mm above the reference plane.

Also, according to 3.10.5, "No part of the car less than 75mm from the car centre line and more than 350mm behind the rear wheel centre line may be more than 400mm above the reference plane." So, from 350mm behind the rear wheel centre line forward to the rear wheel centre line, there is even more freedom with regards to bodywork in the centre area less than 150mm wide. Outside of the cylindrical exclusion zone specified in 5.8.5, you can have bodywork up to 400mm above the reference plane right from or even before the exhaust exit, so you could actually start an open-topped channel of sorts around that exclusion cylinder to funnel exhaust gases and other air onto the monkey seat from much further forward.

I would also think, for the purposes of blowing on the monkey seat, it would be better to have the exhaust exit horizontally, so you could use less angle of attack on the winglet for the same effect, thereby reducing drag from other, non-exhaust airflow.

siskue2005
70
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 8:50 pm

### Re: Williams FW36 Pre-launch Speculation

this reminds me of this

gavingav1
gavingav1
11
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 1:15 am

### Re: Williams FW36 Pre-launch Speculation

outwash wing--i though that teams my use inwash wings to push air under the nose

avatar
avatar
3
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2009 9:01 pm

### Re: Williams FW36 Pre-launch Speculation

My understanding is outwash results in low pressure between the wheels, increasing airflow that way.

I'd guess Ivan would rely on venturi effect to increase flow, but might risk choking the airflow and to my mind would be more sensitive to airflow changes in yaw...

PlatinumZealot
534
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:45 am

### Re: Williams FW36 Pre-launch Speculation

The Monkey seat is in a legal position guys. it is not directly driven by the exhaust, but the air underneath the beam wing is entrained by the high speed exhaust flow. And at the same time the high pressure pocket on the top surface the beam wing serves to deflect the exhaust stream upwards.
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PhillipM
PhillipM
384
Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 2:18 pm
Location: Over the road from Boothy...

### Re: Williams FW36 Pre-launch Speculation

I think it'd be very hard to have much effect directly on the 'beam' wing with the exhaust. Maybe indirectly through driving it with the exhaust gas over the monkey seat, perhaps.

therealjustin
therealjustin
0
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:02 am

### Re: Williams FW36 Pre-launch Speculation

The nose was expected but it is still shocking. The transition into the nose would look better with a more gradual change but of course that would ruin the airflow.

emmepi27
emmepi27
141
Joined: Sun Jul 14, 2013 11:33 am

### Re: Williams FW36 Pre-launch Speculation

Has Williams tried something like this? Endplates as a pillars and mini beam wing ("aerobar" according to Matt Somers ) fixed on the floor and under the central structure:

PlatinumZealot
534
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:45 am

### Re: Williams FW36 Pre-launch Speculation

PhillipM wrote:I think it'd be very hard to have much effect directly on the 'beam' wing with the exhaust. Maybe indirectly through driving it with the exhaust gas over the monkey seat, perhaps.
Sorry, I meant monkey seat! I am so used to the beam wing being back there!
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McG
-19
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2011 4:45 pm

### Re: Williams FW36 Pre-launch Speculation

therealjustin wrote:The nose was expected but it is still shocking. The transition into the nose would look better with a more gradual change but of course that would ruin the airflow.

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x60 ... 3/zpu6.jpg
Literal LOL!

39
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 12:52 pm

### Re: Williams FW36 Pre-launch Speculation

Yep this looks pretty accurate! From the platypus in 2009 to whatever this is 5 years later. Evolution baby!

Manoah2u
Manoah2u
61
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:07 pm

### Re: Williams FW36 Mercedes

"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%\$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

exchaser
exchaser
0
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 5:11 am

### Re: Williams FW36 Mercedes

That actually looks pretty cool. Nice livery

Godius
186
Joined: Sat Mar 02, 2013 11:49 am
Location: NL

### Re: Williams FW36 Mercedes

Quite pretty indeed but it looks a lot like the RBR livery from the last couple of years.