Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
hurril
hurril
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Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2014 12:02 pm

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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lio007 wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 12:28 pm
daniellammers wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 12:23 pm
Markievv wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 11:02 am
I recorded this at Spa last month. This was during FP3 on Albons car. Listen for the bang on the upshift.

https://streamable.com/fcd2y

Sounds a bit like a firecracker on the video but IRL it was a loud bang. Albons car was the only one doing this.
Love the reaction from the crowd, they're like: what
Does this kind of blow-sound at the end of the clip, when shifting, sound healthy in your opinion?
Blow-sound? My guess is that what we're hearing is a shift with a simultaneously open wastegate.

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Marti_EF3
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Location: Spain

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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hurril wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 12:51 pm
lio007 wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 12:28 pm
daniellammers wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 12:23 pm


Love the reaction from the crowd, they're like: what
Does this kind of blow-sound at the end of the clip, when shifting, sound healthy in your opinion?
Blow-sound? My guess is that what we're hearing is a shift with a simultaneously open wastegate.
And why they are using this solution? It's only on certain gears, exiting slow corners for what I saw on TV

flexcon
flexcon
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Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2017 8:18 am

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Marti_EF3 wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 1:10 pm
hurril wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 12:51 pm
lio007 wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 12:28 pm

Does this kind of blow-sound at the end of the clip, when shifting, sound healthy in your opinion?
Blow-sound? My guess is that what we're hearing is a shift with a simultaneously open wastegate.
And why they are using this solution? It's only on certain gears, exiting slow corners for what I saw on TV
Ah, this isn't the same backfire sound.

We have 3 individual sounds we are all talking about!! Let me try and clear it up. I have time-stamped these so should play right at the point you need to listen.

The famous Honda Babble that happens off the throttle. It only lasts here for 2 seconds. This has been a characteristic of this engine since testing first began in November 2014. It's never left.



The "Rough" gearing sound that only happens at certain points. This first started in testing 2017 with McLaren and less so since this year with Redbull.It mainly happens when they were cruising around at low speed or when flat out between 6th, 7th and 8th gear.


The video posted earlier is a "Bang" a whole new type of sound - with flame out the back to add too. Thanks to Jaisonas for the upload.



Hopefully, that clears up what we are all looking out for!

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Marti_EF3
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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flexcon wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 2:41 pm
Marti_EF3 wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 1:10 pm
hurril wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 12:51 pm


Blow-sound? My guess is that what we're hearing is a shift with a simultaneously open wastegate.
And why they are using this solution? It's only on certain gears, exiting slow corners for what I saw on TV
Ah, this isn't the same backfire sound.

We have 3 individual sounds we are all talking about!! Let me try and clear it up. I have time-stamped these so should play right at the point you need to listen.

The famous Honda Babble that happens off the throttle. It only lasts here for 2 seconds. This has been a characteristic of this engine since testing first began in November 2014. It's never left.

https://youtu.be/I8hEOwUC-Hg?t=8

The "Rough" gearing sound that only happens at certain points. This first started in testing 2017 with McLaren and less so since this year with Redbull.It mainly happens when they were cruising around at low speed or when flat out between 6th, 7th and 8th gear.
https://youtu.be/bPQ3_UnMufU?t=6

The video posted earlier is a "Bang" a whole new type of sound - with flame out the back to add too. Thanks to Jaisonas for the upload.

https://streamable.com/31qsx

Hopefully, that clears up what we are all looking out for!
When I was on track during the post GP tests at Barcelona , the Merc also did some bangs entering the final chicane. I think I have it recorded. I will upload later

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lio007
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Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:03 pm
Location: Austria

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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flexcon wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 2:41 pm
Marti_EF3 wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 1:10 pm
hurril wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 12:51 pm


Blow-sound? My guess is that what we're hearing is a shift with a simultaneously open wastegate.
And why they are using this solution? It's only on certain gears, exiting slow corners for what I saw on TV
Ah, this isn't the same backfire sound.

We have 3 individual sounds we are all talking about!! Let me try and clear it up. I have time-stamped these so should play right at the point you need to listen.

The famous Honda Babble that happens off the throttle. It only lasts here for 2 seconds. This has been a characteristic of this engine since testing first began in November 2014. It's never left.



The "Rough" gearing sound that only happens at certain points. This first started in testing 2017 with McLaren and less so since this year with Redbull.It mainly happens when they were cruising around at low speed or when flat out between 6th, 7th and 8th gear.
https://youtu.be/bPQ3_UnMufU?t=6

The video posted earlier is a "Bang" a whole new type of sound - with flame out the back to add too. Thanks to Jaisonas for the upload.

https://streamable.com/31qsx

Hopefully, that clears up what we are all looking out for!
Wow, the first video...
Compared to this year we can see how much they have improved.

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Big Tea
91
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:57 pm

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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The rough 'cough' sound (at around 1 min) reminds me a a car with an electrical fault being 'blip' revved.
It is obviously not a fault but could be the power to spark being cut while the throttle is blipped?
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

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Marti_EF3
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Joined: Mon May 29, 2017 11:45 pm
Location: Spain

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Marti_EF3 wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 2:45 pm
flexcon wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 2:41 pm
Marti_EF3 wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 1:10 pm


And why they are using this solution? It's only on certain gears, exiting slow corners for what I saw on TV
Ah, this isn't the same backfire sound.

We have 3 individual sounds we are all talking about!! Let me try and clear it up. I have time-stamped these so should play right at the point you need to listen.

The famous Honda Babble that happens off the throttle. It only lasts here for 2 seconds. This has been a characteristic of this engine since testing first began in November 2014. It's never left.

https://youtu.be/I8hEOwUC-Hg?t=8

The "Rough" gearing sound that only happens at certain points. This first started in testing 2017 with McLaren and less so since this year with Redbull.It mainly happens when they were cruising around at low speed or when flat out between 6th, 7th and 8th gear.
https://youtu.be/bPQ3_UnMufU?t=6

The video posted earlier is a "Bang" a whole new type of sound - with flame out the back to add too. Thanks to Jaisonas for the upload.

https://streamable.com/31qsx

Hopefully, that clears up what we are all looking out for!
When I was on track during the post GP tests at Barcelona , the Merc also did some bangs entering the final chicane. I think I have it recorded. I will upload later
Here is the video I recorded. If you use earphones it will sound better. Note the "bang" when downshifting entering the corner just before the chicane.


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Sieper
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Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:19 pm

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Gotta say it is a big relief to just see a constructive discussion with lots of information on the actual engine instead of having to weed through the trolls.

Not 5 minutes after the Kvyat problem this morning they were all over this thread with gloom and doom but now they are of course totally gone, now that there is an actual discussion. A breath of fresh air.
Controversy does not have a short memory.

Jaisonas
Jaisonas
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Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:30 pm

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Well fresh off the press, thank god we got 50bucks uploading these. Onboard highlights from Singapore, lots of redbull onboards with plenty of bangs. My guess is late ignition to spin the turbo and charge the batteries.


gruntguru
gruntguru
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Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:43 am

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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flexcon wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 2:41 pm
The famous Honda Babble that happens off the throttle. It only lasts here for 2 seconds. This has been a characteristic of this engine since testing first began in November 2014. It's never left.
https://youtu.be/I8hEOwUC-Hg?t=8
The "Babble" is part-load cylinder skipping. Running a few cylinders at high load uses less fuel than running all cylinders at part load. They skip cylinders in a sequence that shares the "skip fire" around all the cylinders - in a pattern which varies depending how much load they need to shed.
The "Rough" gearing sound that only happens at certain points. This first started in testing 2017 with McLaren and less so since this year with Redbull.It mainly happens when they were cruising around at low speed or when flat out between 6th, 7th and 8th gear.
https://youtu.be/bPQ3_UnMufU?t=6
There is some more cylinder skipping in that clip but also brief periods where the exhaust note increases dramatically. This sounds like wastegate opening. This usually only happens for temporary power boost - electric supercharger mode. Not very efficient so only used when a large advantage can be obtained (attack, defense etc) or when fuel use is not an issue.
The video posted earlier is a "Bang" a whole new type of sound - with flame out the back to add too. Thanks to Jaisonas for the upload.

https://streamable.com/31qsx
Flame indicates a substantial fuel wastage so this would not be used any time fuel burn is an issue. It could be used for a quick turbo spool but that can usually be done efficiently with the MGUH. Far more efficient to use the MGUH then replace the electrical energy by driving the MGUK with the ice during a part load section.
je suis charlie

LM10
LM10
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Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:07 pm

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Horner: "Our Honda PU has the power of Mercedes and Renault now. Only Ferrari stands out. We assume that they still have something up their sleeves for qualifying."

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gandharva
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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New fuel for Suzuka. Mainly aimed to improve race performance. Higher engine modes for longer time.

Bad google translate: https://translate.google.com/translate? ... 5634%3Fall

LM10
LM10
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Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:07 pm

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Honda is really pushing it. I like that.

Does anyone have some financial figures in terms of overall costs in the process of developing and catching up with other manufacturers since 2015?

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lio007
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Location: Austria

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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LM10 wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 9:46 am
Honda is really pushing it. I like that.

Does anyone have some financial figures in terms of overall costs in the process of developing and catching up with other manufacturers since 2015?
I have no figures, but they had twice or so a redesign of their PU, so I really think it's couple of hundreds of millions.

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Marti_EF3
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Location: Spain

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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I think Honda must be testing/experimenting something new with Kvyat car. A lot of "issues" with fuel pressure and stuff like that. And giving they changed the whole PU, maybe something new there...

What do you think?