Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
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etusch
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Thu Jun 09, 2022 8:56 pm
etusch wrote:
Thu Jun 09, 2022 8:03 pm
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Thu Jun 09, 2022 7:14 pm
Is air allowed to enter the engine without going through the throttle body?
Where do you know that it is for air? or what makes you think it is for air?
Even so why do you know it is not through throttle body?
I never claimed it was air, but if it were, and depending on the answer: through throttle to engine, or bypass throttle to exhaust; we can identify some tricks that Honda could do.
I interested with engine and gearbox more then aero. I also want to find out what it is. But we should find out what it is first and then you can question if it is leagal or not.

Owen.C93
Owen.C93
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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That type of gasket is usually for gasses of some kind. But I don’t see it being legal to interact with the combustion chamber.
Motorsport Graduate in search of team experience ;)

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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etusch wrote:
Thu Jun 09, 2022 9:13 pm
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Thu Jun 09, 2022 8:56 pm
etusch wrote:
Thu Jun 09, 2022 8:03 pm


Where do you know that it is for air? or what makes you think it is for air?
Even so why do you know it is not through throttle body?
I never claimed it was air, but if it were, and depending on the answer: through throttle to engine, or bypass throttle to exhaust; we can identify some tricks that Honda could do.
I interested with engine and gearbox more then aero. I also want to find out what it is. But we should find out what it is first and then you can question if it is leagal or not.
So as forum we have more pride in figuring out things first before Scarbs and the others? For shame!

Image

You can see there is what looks like a return header at the base of it.

It could also be water cooling.

I had an idea of the prechamber having it's own air intake valve built into the injectors.. Sort of a loophole.

The other idea is that if it is air in the pipes it just simple cooling.


Edit..
I wonder if it is a cable too... Anyway.. Worth the guesses!
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gruntguru
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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etusch wrote:
Thu Jun 09, 2022 9:13 pm
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Thu Jun 09, 2022 8:56 pm
etusch wrote:
Thu Jun 09, 2022 8:03 pm


Where do you know that it is for air? or what makes you think it is for air?
Even so why do you know it is not through throttle body?
I never claimed it was air, but if it were, and depending on the answer: through throttle to engine, or bypass throttle to exhaust; we can identify some tricks that Honda could do.
I interested with engine and gearbox more then aero. I also want to find out what it is. But we should find out what it is first and then you can question if it is legal or not.
Knowing whether it is legal or not helps a lot with deciding how it works. If it looks illegal - you are looking at it wrong.
je suis charlie

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etusch
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Fri Jun 10, 2022 12:36 am


1-So as forum we have more pride in figuring out things first before Scarbs and the others? For shame!




2-I had an idea of the prechamber having it's own air intake valve built into the injectors.. Sort of a loophole.

1- I learnt so much from this forum. Thats why I keep following. I don't follow scrabs much.
2- this is logical to feed prechamber from different air supplier ( to me ) but cooling it with air instead of water not looked logical to me.
Honda uses water cooling with private water pipes for engine block and engine head at road cars. If engine head needs better cooling I think they will use same.

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etusch
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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gruntguru wrote:
Fri Jun 10, 2022 5:04 am
etusch wrote:
Thu Jun 09, 2022 9:13 pm
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Thu Jun 09, 2022 8:56 pm


I never claimed it was air, but if it were, and depending on the answer: through throttle to engine, or bypass throttle to exhaust; we can identify some tricks that Honda could do.
I interested with engine and gearbox more then aero. I also want to find out what it is. But we should find out what it is first and then you can question if it is legal or not.
Knowing whether it is legal or not helps a lot with deciding how it works. If it looks illegal - you are looking at it wrong.
You are right but the question felt me the first aim of question is not that. That's why I commented like I did.

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etusch
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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This is Honda engine which has another air inlet for prechamber. I wonder if this prechamber valve can be activated by selenoids now ?
Image

This is prechamber system they designed for motorcycle engines.
Image

gruntguru
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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etusch wrote:
Fri Jun 10, 2022 7:58 am
This is prechamber system they designed for motorcycle engines.
https://i.ibb.co/gWLB9KZ/prechamber.jpg
Looks like a "hot bulb" for reliable ignition of lean mixtures - not a power enhancing design. Are you sure it is for motorcycles?
je suis charlie

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KAIZEN
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Owen.C93 wrote:
Thu Jun 09, 2022 7:12 pm
Can anyone tell me what this mini manifold is in the power unit this year. Cooling circuit maybe?

2022
https://i.imgur.com/JtCC87X.png

2019 for ref (might be older, ignore the red arrow)
https://i.imgur.com/quBfuAd.png
It is for cooling the exhaust valve.
It is also used in Honda's light vehicles.

https://car.motor-fan.jp/tech/10011330

J.A.W.
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Owen.C93 wrote:
Thu Jun 09, 2022 9:21 pm
That type of gasket is usually for gasses of some kind. But I don’t see it being legal to interact with the combustion chamber.
EGR, it could be, looks like hot gas has been flowing - by the metal temp-tone?
"Well, we knocked the bastard off!"

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(& 1st to do a surface traverse across Antarctica,
in good Kiwi style - riding a Massey Ferguson farm
tractor - with a few extemporised mod's to hack the task).

J.A.W.
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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etusch wrote:
Fri Jun 10, 2022 7:58 am
This is Honda engine which has another air inlet for prechamber. I wonder if this prechamber valve can be activated by selenoids now ?
https://i.ibb.co/LZmq3bg/old-pre-chamber.jpg

This is prechamber system they designed for motorcycle engines.
https://i.ibb.co/gWLB9KZ/prechamber.jpg
IIRC, ~45 years ago Mitsubishi used a similar additional mini-poppet valve in some engines as
an emission control expedient of the day, maybe it was some kind of cylinder-flow turbulence
induction device (or was it an EGR thing)? The details are a bit fuzzy now...
"Well, we knocked the bastard off!"

Ed Hilary on being 1st to top Mt Everest,
(& 1st to do a surface traverse across Antarctica,
in good Kiwi style - riding a Massey Ferguson farm
tractor - with a few extemporised mod's to hack the task).

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etusch
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Location: Turkey

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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gruntguru wrote:
Fri Jun 10, 2022 11:42 pm
etusch wrote:
Fri Jun 10, 2022 7:58 am
This is prechamber system they designed for motorcycle engines.
https://i.ibb.co/gWLB9KZ/prechamber.jpg
Looks like a "hot bulb" for reliable ignition of lean mixtures - not a power enhancing design. Are you sure it is for motorcycles?
HONDA FILES PATENT FOR PRE-CHAMBER IGNITION SYSTEM
Pre-chamber ignition has been around for decades although these Honda patents could show the first time the tech has been used on two-wheels!

https://www.visordown.com/news/new-bike ... ion-system

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etusch
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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J.A.W. wrote:
Sat Jun 11, 2022 3:54 am
etusch wrote:
Fri Jun 10, 2022 7:58 am
This is Honda engine which has another air inlet for prechamber. I wonder if this prechamber valve can be activated by selenoids now ?
https://i.ibb.co/LZmq3bg/old-pre-chamber.jpg

This is prechamber system they designed for motorcycle engines.
https://i.ibb.co/gWLB9KZ/prechamber.jpg
IIRC, ~45 years ago Mitsubishi used a similar additional mini-poppet valve in some engines as
an emission control expedient of the day, maybe it was some kind of cylinder-flow turbulence
induction device (or was it an EGR thing)? The details are a bit fuzzy now...
EGR is bad for flame jets outing from prechamber nozzles. It affect homogeneous diffusion of flames. I don't think so.
If it is related with prechamber and feed it as we assumed, then it can be for feeding it with fresh, maybe cooler(if it has any benefit ) air. I think best benefit of this kind of thing is exhausting burned mixture from prechamber and filling it with fresh air.

GhostF1
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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J.A.W. wrote:
Sat Jun 11, 2022 3:43 am
Owen.C93 wrote:
Thu Jun 09, 2022 9:21 pm
That type of gasket is usually for gasses of some kind. But I don’t see it being legal to interact with the combustion chamber.
EGR, it could be, looks like hot gas has been flowing - by the metal temp-tone?
Is it not being sourced from the compressor side though? Exhaust turbine is at the rear of the engine. So I'm sceptical that's EGR at all.

Could this not be a newer variant of that Secondary Air Bypass thing they use. Instead of wastegates to atmosphere, excess boost pressure is dumped into the cylinders that are not firing to spin the turbo/H for a burst of regen?

NL_Fer
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Is it cooling water from the radiator, to directly cool the top of the cilinder area?