Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[J.A.W.]

That type of gasket is usually for gasses of some kind. But I don’t see it being legal to interact with the combustion chamber.

EGR, it could be, looks like hot gas has been flowing - by the metal temp-tone?

Is it not being sourced from the compressor side though? Exhaust turbine is at the rear of the engine. So I'm sceptical that's EGR at all.

Could this not be a newer variant of that Secondary Air Bypass thing they use. Instead of wastegates to atmosphere, excess boost pressure is dumped into the cylinders that are not firing to spin the turbo/H for a burst of regen?

Who knows which way the gases are moving through that 'log-manifold, & going to/from what unit'?

Certainly the colour-toning would suggest it is quite hot, & it is on the exhaust side of the mill...

[hkbruin]

Honda/RBP once again shows they are the crème of the crop when it comes to engine performance and reliability. Proud to see how far they’ve come from the depths of hell to the peak of the mountain. With grid penalties on the horizon for Ferrari, the gap in the championship will continue to grow. As a life-long Honda fan I’m on Cloud9!!

[ispano6]

Remember the musings of Honda struggling to regain back the horsepower due to E10 fuel? Sure they had early gremlins this year but made a good recovery understanding the issues.

It would be nice to see improvements and upgrades for the ERS and battery too.

I hope they have success at Suzuka this year and maybe even have a chance to witness a win there. Singapore too, it's been a while since Asia has had a F1 race for the Honda fans.

[Wazari]

Remember the musings of Honda struggling to regain back the horsepower due to E10 fuel? Sure they had early gremlins this year but made a good recovery understanding the issues.

It would be nice to see improvements and upgrades for the ERS and battery too.

I hope they have success at Suzuka this year and maybe even have a chance to witness a win there. Singapore too, it's been a while since Asia has had a F1 race for the Honda fans.

There will be a significant upgrade to the ERS system after summer break and that along with a major chassis upgrade about the same time should bode well for RBR in the second half of the season.

[Alexf1]

Remember the musings of Honda struggling to regain back the horsepower due to E10 fuel? Sure they had early gremlins this year but made a good recovery understanding the issues.

It would be nice to see improvements and upgrades for the ERS and battery too.

I hope they have success at Suzuka this year and maybe even have a chance to witness a win there. Singapore too, it's been a while since Asia has had a F1 race for the Honda fans.

There will be a significant upgrade to the ERS system after summer break and that along with a major chassis upgrade about the same time should bode well for RBR in the second half of the season.

That's very good news! Since the ES itself had a major update last year at Spa I'm guessing the update will mostly be about improving regeneration efficiency of MGU-K and heat control of ES so max. charging and discharging rate is improved. Hope it will all be 100% reliable from the start cause looking at Ferrari powerunit issues can take away a lot of points. Otherwise I assume it's possible to only homologate the new spec ERS hardware just before sep 1st but continue with a 3rd unit of the current ERS and introduce the new one next year (or introduce it but not use the most agressive software mode just yet)

[Mansell89]

Remember the musings of Honda struggling to regain back the horsepower due to E10 fuel? Sure they had early gremlins this year but made a good recovery understanding the issues.

It would be nice to see improvements and upgrades for the ERS and battery too.

I hope they have success at Suzuka this year and maybe even have a chance to witness a win there. Singapore too, it's been a while since Asia has had a F1 race for the Honda fans.

There will be a significant upgrade to the ERS system after summer break and that along with a major chassis upgrade about the same time should bode well for RBR in the second half of the season.

Hey Wazari,

Thank you so much for your contributions and insight over the years- it’s been wonderful.

Hope you don’t mind me asking this question in this thread, but may I ask:

1) Have there been obvious differences in the way Red Bull and Alpha Tauri have collaborated with Honda during this relationship, when compared to how McLaren approached things in 2015,2016, and 2017?

2) Do you have a feel for how Honda views McLaren after the 3 year collaboration- is there ever likely to be room for a reconciliation if the opportunity presented itself later down the line in due course? Or was significant damage done to the relationship? Is there a negative view of Fernando Alonso for example?


Apologies that it’s not engine-technical per se but more akin to the working relationships between engine suppliers and their team partners.

[Wazari]

Hey Wazari,

Thank you so much for your contributions and insight over the years- it’s been wonderful.

Hope you don’t mind me asking this question in this thread, but may I ask:

1) Have there been obvious differences in the way Red Bull and Alpha Tauri have collaborated with Honda during this relationship, when compared to how McLaren approached things in 2015,2016, and 2017?

2) Do you have a feel for how Honda views McLaren after the 3 year collaboration- is there ever likely to be room for a reconciliation if the opportunity presented itself later down the line in due course? Or was significant damage done to the relationship? Is there a negative view of Fernando Alonso for example?


Apologies that it’s not engine-technical per se but more akin to the working relationships between engine suppliers and their team partners.

I am pretty sure I have written about this before. The relationship with McLaren was toxic from the start IMO. I saw the written correspondence between the two parties in the beginning and Honda must have been so desperate to get back into F1. The overall atmosphere was that of McLaren saying we are doing you a huge favor, this is what we want right now. Honda made a mistake giving in and rushing into the racing scene. The relationship with RBR and Torro Rosso was more of "thanks for providing us with a PU, what can we do to make it work?"

I think the whole McLaren thing is water under the bridge. Key executives change, TP's move on, etc. Was there damage done at the time? Very much yes, but time has a tendency to heal. People in F1 circles know not to pay much attention to what Alonso says so again water under the bridge.

[Big Tea]

Hey Wazari,

Thank you so much for your contributions and insight over the years- it’s been wonderful.

Hope you don’t mind me asking this question in this thread, but may I ask:

1) Have there been obvious differences in the way Red Bull and Alpha Tauri have collaborated with Honda during this relationship, when compared to how McLaren approached things in 2015,2016, and 2017?

2) Do you have a feel for how Honda views McLaren after the 3 year collaboration- is there ever likely to be room for a reconciliation if the opportunity presented itself later down the line in due course? Or was significant damage done to the relationship? Is there a negative view of Fernando Alonso for example?


Apologies that it’s not engine-technical per se but more akin to the working relationships between engine suppliers and their team partners.

I am pretty sure I have written about this before. The relationship with McLaren was toxic from the start IMO. I saw the written correspondence between the two parties in the beginning and Honda must have been so desperate to get back into F1. The overall atmosphere was that of McLaren saying we are doing you a huge favor, this is what we want right now. Honda made a mistake giving in and rushing into the racing scene. The relationship with RBR and Torro Rosso was more of "thanks for providing us with a PU, what can we do to make it work?"

I think the whole McLaren thing is water under the bridge. Key executives change, TP's move on, etc. Was there damage done at the time? Very much yes, but time has a tendency to heal. People in F1 circles know not to pay much attention to what Alonso says so again water under the bridge.

(edited sorry, messed up the quotes)

If you ever produce a book, please put me on your pre order list.
I always look forward to your posts.

[Roostfactor]

Hey Wazari,

Thank you so much for your contributions and insight over the years- it’s been wonderful.

Hope you don’t mind me asking this question in this thread, but may I ask:

1) Have there been obvious differences in the way Red Bull and Alpha Tauri have collaborated with Honda during this relationship, when compared to how McLaren approached things in 2015,2016, and 2017?

2) Do you have a feel for how Honda views McLaren after the 3 year collaboration- is there ever likely to be room for a reconciliation if the opportunity presented itself later down the line in due course? Or was significant damage done to the relationship? Is there a negative view of Fernando Alonso for example?


Apologies that it’s not engine-technical per se but more akin to the working relationships between engine suppliers and their team partners.

I am pretty sure I have written about this before. The relationship with McLaren was toxic from the start IMO. I saw the written correspondence between the two parties in the beginning and Honda must have been so desperate to get back into F1. The overall atmosphere was that of McLaren saying we are doing you a huge favor, this is what we want right now. Honda made a mistake giving in and rushing into the racing scene. The relationship with RBR and Torro Rosso was more of "thanks for providing us with a PU, what can we do to make it work?"

I think the whole McLaren thing is water under the bridge. Key executives change, TP's move on, etc. Was there damage done at the time? Very much yes, but time has a tendency to heal. People in F1 circles know not to pay much attention to what Alonso says so again water under the bridge.

(edited sorry, messed up the quotes)

If you ever produce a book, please put me on your pre order list.
I always look forward to your posts.

I'll be #2!

[DR30]

I am pretty sure I have written about this before. The relationship with McLaren was toxic from the start IMO. I saw the written correspondence between the two parties in the beginning and Honda must have been so desperate to get back into F1. The overall atmosphere was that of McLaren saying we are doing you a huge favor, this is what we want right now. Honda made a mistake giving in and rushing into the racing scene. The relationship with RBR and Torro Rosso was more of "thanks for providing us with a PU, what can we do to make it work?"

I think the whole McLaren thing is water under the bridge. Key executives change, TP's move on, etc. Was there damage done at the time? Very much yes, but time has a tendency to heal. People in F1 circles know not to pay much attention to what Alonso says so again water under the bridge.

(edited sorry, messed up the quotes)

If you ever produce a book, please put me on your pre order list.
I always look forward to your posts.

I'll be #2!

I'll be #3

[ispano6]

Remember the musings of Honda struggling to regain back the horsepower due to E10 fuel? Sure they had early gremlins this year but made a good recovery understanding the issues.

It would be nice to see improvements and upgrades for the ERS and battery too.

I hope they have success at Suzuka this year and maybe even have a chance to witness a win there. Singapore too, it's been a while since Asia has had a F1 race for the Honda fans.

There will be a significant upgrade to the ERS system after summer break and that along with a major chassis upgrade about the same time should bode well for RBR in the second half of the season.

Like Hkbruin said it would be great if Honda comes out with a car that showcases its F1 tech especially considering Asaki-san mentioned that the know how from F1 battery development will be of benefit to it's future products. Hopefully the battery upgrade takes their carbon nanotube tech and weight reduction to the next level.

[hkbruin]

If Honda does introduce a new ES with less weight, it doesn’t go against the Red Bull team’s cost cap does it? Since there was a certain cost associated for every kg shed floating around, would that be a free upgrade?

[saviour stivala]

Power unit is out of cost gap.

[Alexf1]

If Honda does introduce a new ES with less weight, it doesn’t go against the Red Bull team’s cost cap does it? Since there was a certain cost associated for every kg shed floating around, would that be a free upgrade?

You're right I think. Drivetrain parts (which the battery is part of) are indeed excluded from the cost cap. A drivetrain development which leads to a weight reduction will cost Red Bull powertrains money as they pay for technology as of this year but not money from the budget cap. As of the budget cap the remainder of the original bigger budget simply has shifted to RBPT.

[Mansell89]

Hey Wazari,

Thank you so much for your contributions and insight over the years- it’s been wonderful.

Hope you don’t mind me asking this question in this thread, but may I ask:

1) Have there been obvious differences in the way Red Bull and Alpha Tauri have collaborated with Honda during this relationship, when compared to how McLaren approached things in 2015,2016, and 2017?

2) Do you have a feel for how Honda views McLaren after the 3 year collaboration- is there ever likely to be room for a reconciliation if the opportunity presented itself later down the line in due course? Or was significant damage done to the relationship? Is there a negative view of Fernando Alonso for example?


Apologies that it’s not engine-technical per se but more akin to the working relationships between engine suppliers and their team partners.

I am pretty sure I have written about this before. The relationship with McLaren was toxic from the start IMO. I saw the written correspondence between the two parties in the beginning and Honda must have been so desperate to get back into F1. The overall atmosphere was that of McLaren saying we are doing you a huge favor, this is what we want right now. Honda made a mistake giving in and rushing into the racing scene. The relationship with RBR and Torro Rosso was more of "thanks for providing us with a PU, what can we do to make it work?"

I think the whole McLaren thing is water under the bridge. Key executives change, TP's move on, etc. Was there damage done at the time? Very much yes, but time has a tendency to heal. People in F1 circles know not to pay much attention to what Alonso says so again water under the bridge.

Thank you so much Wazari- appreciate it so much and as the others have said- il be in line for the book too!

Honda seriously impressive this season in the Red Bull- must be awesome to enjoy it.

Take care and thank you