Engine technology free-for-all

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
Tommy Cookers
Tommy Cookers
621
Joined: 17 Feb 2012, 16:55

Re: Engine technology free-for-all

Post

J.A.W. wrote:I heard that "balls to the wall" was an expression derived from the steam era..
.. & relates to when the machine was pumpin' so hard that the balls spinning in the governor - would fly loose..
AFAIK the term does come from the steam era
the governer has hanging weights which move out centrifugally (against their own weight) as the shaft rotates faster
enough rpm and the weights are far enough out to start pulling the mechanism that reduces the steam
the mechanical advantage increases with the outward movement, so this movement becomes large and conspicuous
this is 'balls out' - the normal state of a governed engine eg in a factory turning line shafting at constant speed against variable load
presumably machines were often installed against a wall (so the the governer would naturally be near to the wall)
so 'balls to the wall' was standard full speed

how about 'going ballistic' ?
AFAIK it is a legitimate US fighter pilot term meaning flying at zero-lift-coefficient angle of attack
I believe I have seen it used by such persons
(turn) manoeuvring uses high A0A for high Cl, the resulting high Cd depletes speed, hence degrades manoeuvring capability
so regularly Cl must be reduced (even to zero, this being the quickest way to recover some speed) .... etc
a ball (or ballistic missile) having no wings so always a zero Cl
similarly, 'unload' means reduction of Cl, going ballistic is a subset of 'unloading'

J.A.W.
J.A.W.
109
Joined: 01 Sep 2014, 05:10
Location: Altair IV.

Re: Engine technology free-for-all

Post

"Unloading" & "going ballistic" have different meanings if in emotive/colloquial usage or aeronautical/tech terms..

A 'barrel roll' flight evolution generally requires steady application of +ve G..
.. here a -ve G.. "unloading" - deviation from regular control - may be seen as "going ballistic"..

A wild free style gunfight may also be termed as "unloading" &"going ballistic"..

This semantics stuff is a bit OT, though..
"Well, we knocked the bastard off!"

Ed Hilary on being 1st to top Mt Everest,
(& 1st to do a surface traverse across Antarctica,
in good Kiwi style - riding a Massey Ferguson farm
tractor - with a few extemporised mod's to hack the task).

gruntguru
gruntguru
563
Joined: 21 Feb 2009, 07:43

Re: Engine technology free-for-all

Post

OT - in a "free for all"?

(Free for all. "a competition, dispute, or fight open to all comers and usually with no rules") (Semantics)
je suis charlie

J.A.W.
J.A.W.
109
Joined: 01 Sep 2014, 05:10
Location: Altair IV.

Re: Engine technology free-for-all

Post

Well, it might be..
..'cept that semantics aint the topic.. .. & "engine technology" is..

& centrifugal governor ball gyrations?
Yeah, could check with the OT police, they might make the cut, "free-for-all"-wise..
"Well, we knocked the bastard off!"

Ed Hilary on being 1st to top Mt Everest,
(& 1st to do a surface traverse across Antarctica,
in good Kiwi style - riding a Massey Ferguson farm
tractor - with a few extemporised mod's to hack the task).

gruntguru
gruntguru
563
Joined: 21 Feb 2009, 07:43

Re: Engine technology free-for-all

Post

J.A.W. wrote:semantics aint the topic..
Oh s**t - sorry!
je suis charlie

J.A.W.
J.A.W.
109
Joined: 01 Sep 2014, 05:10
Location: Altair IV.

Re: Engine technology free-for-all

Post

Hey G-G..
No apology required.. ..as far as I go.. ..but then.. ..I aint actually the OT police.. ..just bloody 2nd guessing..
"Well, we knocked the bastard off!"

Ed Hilary on being 1st to top Mt Everest,
(& 1st to do a surface traverse across Antarctica,
in good Kiwi style - riding a Massey Ferguson farm
tractor - with a few extemporised mod's to hack the task).

User avatar
strad
117
Joined: 02 Jan 2010, 01:57

Re: Engine technology free-for-all

Post

JEEEEEEEEZ sorry guys
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

J.A.W.
J.A.W.
109
Joined: 01 Sep 2014, 05:10
Location: Altair IV.

Re: Engine technology free-for-all

Post

Strad, ol'bean..
.. while no doubt you have reason to apologise elsewhere so vehemently.. ..for all manner of means..
.. We..( & I am reasonably confident to speak in the plural on this, given the time elapsed)..
..we'll let you off such mea culpa stunts on this "free-for-all" thread.. as long as.. you don't do it again..
Orright.. L.O.L..
"Well, we knocked the bastard off!"

Ed Hilary on being 1st to top Mt Everest,
(& 1st to do a surface traverse across Antarctica,
in good Kiwi style - riding a Massey Ferguson farm
tractor - with a few extemporised mod's to hack the task).

User avatar
strad
117
Joined: 02 Jan 2010, 01:57

Re: Engine technology free-for-all

Post

Just to commit the sin again..
Balls out could apply to the steam era but balls to the wall is generally attributed to aeroplanes
First attested in the 1960s in the context of aviation. Probably coined by pilots whose throttle levers had round, ball-like tops and for whom putting the "balls to the wall" (the firewall of the aircraft) meant making the aircraft fly as quickly as possible. Probably not, as sometimes suggested, from railroad jargon
source: Wiktionary
Last edited by strad on 10 Oct 2014, 04:17, edited 1 time in total.
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

J.A.W.
J.A.W.
109
Joined: 01 Sep 2014, 05:10
Location: Altair IV.

Re: Engine technology free-for-all

Post

"Wiki" eh, Strad?
With that kind of authoritative heft, authenticity-wise.. that'd have to be the clincher then.. ..not..

Anyhow.. check out these interesting sonic pumping devices..

http://www.tyga-performance.com/site/in ... 71_815_816
"Well, we knocked the bastard off!"

Ed Hilary on being 1st to top Mt Everest,
(& 1st to do a surface traverse across Antarctica,
in good Kiwi style - riding a Massey Ferguson farm
tractor - with a few extemporised mod's to hack the task).

gruntguru
gruntguru
563
Joined: 21 Feb 2009, 07:43

Re: Engine technology free-for-all

Post

Stunning JAW. Interesting construction techniques - they must have a CNC jigging/welding machine?

Image
je suis charlie

J.A.W.
J.A.W.
109
Joined: 01 Sep 2014, 05:10
Location: Altair IV.

Re: Engine technology free-for-all

Post

I expect it would have to something like that G-G, it seems to be a fair bit of work for the money..
Although some 2T pipes are hydro-formed in moulds, so requiring far fewer seams..

Pic provides a graphic example of a resonance chamber, enabling energy to be recycled,
& a notably small exit pipe diameter - compared to header/exhaust port dimension.

Bear in mind - those pipes featured in the pic above contribute to a ~70hp 250cc 2T road-bike..
These Suzuki mills were sold as showroom/warranty spec machines ~20 years ago..
.. yet the ~280hp/ltr specific output - is - AFAIK, yet to be bettered as such, even by super-pricey turbo'd stuff..
"Well, we knocked the bastard off!"

Ed Hilary on being 1st to top Mt Everest,
(& 1st to do a surface traverse across Antarctica,
in good Kiwi style - riding a Massey Ferguson farm
tractor - with a few extemporised mod's to hack the task).

J.A.W.
J.A.W.
109
Joined: 01 Sep 2014, 05:10
Location: Altair IV.

Re: Engine technology free-for-all

Post

"Any Old Iron?"..
..or why practicable chainsaws are 2T powered..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6wG9ZJY ... e=youtu.be

I'd reckon even bloody Tarzan'd have a job hefting that Fe bastard around the jungle, let alone up a tree..
"Well, we knocked the bastard off!"

Ed Hilary on being 1st to top Mt Everest,
(& 1st to do a surface traverse across Antarctica,
in good Kiwi style - riding a Massey Ferguson farm
tractor - with a few extemporised mod's to hack the task).

wuzak
wuzak
445
Joined: 30 Aug 2011, 03:26

Re: Engine technology free-for-all

Post

gruntguru wrote:Wuzak - I agree the crank was most likely a 180 degree 4cyl arrangement (for balance reasons). Certainly there were only 4 crankpins with a master/slave con rod on each. This arrangement would dictate 12 paired cylinder firings per cycle. The arrangement raises a lot of issues. For example, did they have provision for different ignition timing on each (4 cyl) bank since slave/master rodded cylinders have different piston phasing and velocity profiles?
Just found this post about the Jumo 222's firing order.

The Cylinder banks were numbered 1-6 and each row 1-4.

The firing order is given as:

2B1 (bank 2 cylinder 1) & 5B2 (bank 5 cylinder 2), 1B1 & 4B2, 6B4 & 3B3, 2B3 & 5B4, 1B2 & 4B1, 6B2 & 3B1, 2B4 & 5B3, 1B4 & 4B3, 6B1 & 3B2, 2B2 & 5B1, 1B3 & 4B4, and 6B3 & 3B4.

J.A.W.
J.A.W.
109
Joined: 01 Sep 2014, 05:10
Location: Altair IV.

Re: Engine technology free-for-all

Post

wuzak wrote:
gruntguru wrote:Wuzak - I agree the crank was most likely a 180 degree 4cyl arrangement (for balance reasons). Certainly there were only 4 crankpins with a master/slave con rod on each. This arrangement would dictate 12 paired cylinder firings per cycle. The arrangement raises a lot of issues. For example, did they have provision for different ignition timing on each (4 cyl) bank since slave/master rodded cylinders have different piston phasing and velocity profiles?
Just found this post about the Jumo 222's firing order.

The Cylinder banks were numbered 1-6 and each row 1-4.

The firing order is given as:

2B1 (bank 2 cylinder 1) & 5B2 (bank 5 cylinder 2), 1B1 & 4B2, 6B4 & 3B3, 2B3 & 5B4, 1B2 & 4B1, 6B2 & 3B1, 2B4 & 5B3, 1B4 & 4B3, 6B1 & 3B2, 2B2 & 5B1, 1B3 & 4B4, and 6B3 & 3B4.
Hardly surprising then, that it never did do properly - 'what it said on the tin'..

An X (actually *) -configuration with simultaneous firing, - plenty of harmonic horrors - where is Manolis on this..
"Well, we knocked the bastard off!"

Ed Hilary on being 1st to top Mt Everest,
(& 1st to do a surface traverse across Antarctica,
in good Kiwi style - riding a Massey Ferguson farm
tractor - with a few extemporised mod's to hack the task).