F1technical.net

According to autosport williams is going to run the seamless shift transmission:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/49822

I thought at teh beginning of last season BAR was forced to lengthen the time of their shifts as they were so quick that it was against the rules as seamless transmissions were dissalowed to prevent CVTs.

Did the rules change? Are williams doing something different?

Yes Williams is going to use it, the seamless shift transmission. Rosberg and Webber had some problems with them during testing, but Williams decided to use it in Bahrain!

I have read the same info from automobile magazine. they it could provide a gain of about 0.4 sec per lap!

vyselegend wrote:I have read the same info from automobile magazine. they it could provide a gain of about 0.4 sec per lap!

I'm sorry it's only 0.2 sec per lap....that's the information I got
http://www.f1technical.net/news/1969

The more I read this magazine, the less it seems serious. I should'nt have quoted them I belive your infos are far more reliable. Thanks for the correction

vyselegend wrote:The more I read this magazine, the less it seems serious. I should'nt have quoted them I belive your infos are far more reliable. Thanks for the correction

Hey, no problem! There are lot of different sources for f1 information and sometimes one of them is wrong...it's something you can't avoid! So don't feel bad...You shared your info with us and I do the same...so no problem, this is what a forum is about, giving eachother information and discuss it!

It's ok!! Actually I had just post when I read something like "all engines will run at 20 000 RPM" and one or two more approximations like this, so I began to have real doubts about that source. But I have to recognise they have some grat pics in the mag...

Found the article about the 2005 BAR gearbox here:
http://www.sportnetwork.net/main/s169/st66575.htm

From what I remember(but can't find a source) they were forced to lengthen the shifts. What changed this year that allows this? Did enough teams get this technology that the f1 working group's recomendation changed? Will we see issues with this if williams is successful? Was BAR wronged last year for not being able to optimise its gearbox?

It is not about lengthening the shift, there is no rule that requests a certain amount of time for a shift.

The point is that there has to be a clear shift between gears, there has to be a break in power.

peroa wrote:It is not about lengthening the shift, there is no rule that requests a certain amount of time for a shift.

The point is that there has to be a clear shift between gears, there has to be a break in power.

Do they have two clutches engaged at the same time in order to have such little time when shifting?

By “break in power” I understand that the engine should not have contact with the gearbox, so the fact of having two clutches engaged at same time (of course one sliding more than the other) clearly breaks FIA rules.

If it’s not “two clutches working at the same time”, what’s the secret behind seamless shifting (if there is any)?

I believe two clutches are forbidden, you mean like AUDI-VW DSG.
You should ask Ron Dennis, he can sing you a song about...

Willis said it`s "something" like the Weissman Qickshift, only different.

http://forums.autosport.com/showthread. ... adid=83095

Here is a discussion about the magic of the gearbox...

he F1 Technical Working group agreed that there must be a 300ms break in power when changing gears, yet this hasn't made it into the rule book.

peroa wrote:I believe two clutches are forbidden, you mean like AUDI-VW DSG.
You should ask Ron Dennis, he can sing you a song about...

Willis said it`s "something" like the Weissman Qickshift, only different.

http://forums.autosport.com/showthread. ... adid=83095

Here is a discussion about the magic of the gearbox...

It seems that nobody knows what's going on inside their gearbox.
That Zeroshift appears to be a good idea, but I can't really understand how it works and why it isn't adopted by car companies instead of double clutch systems.

This is a copy of my post from other topic about FW28

This seams to be Williams secret weapon (as Scarbs pointed out)



http://www.zeroshift.com/flash/sequence.swf

Zeroshift System Animation
Shift Sequence: Neutral – Gear 1 – Gear 2
Bullets in Neutral
Bullets in gear 1 position – giving minimal backlash
Bullets requested to move across (spring mounted), only the overdrive/ gear 2 acceleration bullet is free to move (red)
Gear 2 acceleration bullet (red) in position, Gear 1 acceleration bullet (blue) is held in under load due to retention angle on the dog
Second gear picks up drive.
Second gear overdrives first gear.
First gear acceleration/ second gear overdrive bullet (blue) shifts under spring preload.
Second gear overdrive bullet (blue) in position – giving minimal backlash.

Transmission Technology
Zeroshift Ltd’s Transmission Technology working under the Patented Zeroshift Principle is able to transfer power from the engine to the driven wheels without interrupting torque during changes of gear ratio.

With a VT, theoretically, you can run the engine at it's optimum RPM level, and vary the transmission ratio. The powers in F1 decide that this isn't wanted, and in an effort to make sure CVT's aren't used, the rule was placed that there had to be some form of break in the drive during a shift in drive ratios. That is how things are done traditionally. You are in first gear, run the engine up to it's RPM limit, then clutch, shift to second gear, engage drive, and so on. There has been an ongoing effort to reduce this period of time between shifts. If you could shave off .1 seconds each shift, and shifted ten times a lap, then in theory, you would be 1.0 seconds quicker a lap. So the battle between teams continues, each trying very hard to reduce this time between shifts.
This zero shift system still uses gears of different ratios, but with the small bullets used to engage the gears, that time is reduced to almost zero. The bullets are held back from shifting to the next higher gear by the load on the lower gear. As soon as the shift sequence begins, the bullets are unloaded,and move into engagement to the next higher gear. The time of the shift is determined by the amount of time it takes a bullet to move a very small distance. The gears are placed in very close tolerance, and the distance between the bullets and gears is microscopic. Traditional shifter forks have to move as much as one, two, maybe three centimeters. Compared to traditional shifter fork technology, this zero shift system is much quicker.