Mercedes AMG F1 W06 Speculation

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prince
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Joined: 01 Mar 2012, 11:22

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W06 Speculation Thread

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Juzh wrote:
prince wrote:teams are operating with that as an accepted parameter.
acceptable =/= optimal. He's at 13.5k because he's spinning the tires to rev limit. If he had no wheel spin he'd shift at his normal point at around 12.5k, as he usually does.
Agreed, that if there was no wheel spin, the revs might not have been higher. But the point I am making is, there has been wheel spin, throughout the year and if that is causing the revs up, it still revs up.

OO7
OO7
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Joined: 06 Apr 2010, 17:49

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W06 Speculation Thread

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scarbs wrote:Oddly sidepods might get bigger. Team's will be pushing the PU harder and rejecting more heat
This is a very valid point.
One thing I don't quite understand with Mercedes, is that they launched the W05 with almost nonexistent sidepod cooling exits, they were so small as seen here:
Image
These cooling ducts were only used on the first day of the Jerez test, there after Mercedes switched to a much more substantial design. I find it difficult to believe that Mercedes were so far out with their calculations.

I thought that perhaps because Jerez was so cold at that time and the early runs were most likely run at very low power levels, the smaller exits were necessary to keep the PU at the correct operating temperature. However why would Mercedes spend time and money designing a cooling exit that was only to be used once, when they could have simply blanked off part of the larger design?

Phillyred
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Joined: 08 Apr 2010, 18:46

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W06 Speculation Thread

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Merc has historically had an issue with cooling throughout the last 4yrs so I'm sure they erred on the side of keeping the W05 "cool" in the testing stages to get a feel for running temps. A lot of teams had major issues with cooling early on this year most noticeably Red Bull.

OO7
OO7
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W06 Speculation Thread

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Phillyred wrote:Merc has historically had an issue with cooling throughout the last 4yrs so I'm sure they erred on the side of keeping the W05 "cool" in the testing stages to get a feel for running temps. A lot of teams had major issues with cooling early on this year most noticeably Red Bull.
But the larger cooling exits were what they also raced with, so I still wonder why they went for the ultra compact exits on the first day.
Last edited by OO7 on 05 Dec 2014, 15:40, edited 1 time in total.

mrluke
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Joined: 22 Nov 2013, 20:31

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W06 Speculation Thread

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scarbs wrote:Oddly sidepods might get bigger. Team's will be pushing the PU harder and rejecting more heat
Scarbs, can you expand on this? If they get more power out of the same amount of fuel wouldn't they have less heat to reject?

wesley123
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Joined: 23 Feb 2008, 17:55

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W06 Speculation Thread

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Larger intercooler is what I am thinking of.
"Bite my shiny metal ass" - Bender

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Holm86
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Joined: 10 Feb 2010, 03:37
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W06 Speculation Thread

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mrluke wrote:
scarbs wrote:Oddly sidepods might get bigger. Team's will be pushing the PU harder and rejecting more heat
Scarbs, can you expand on this? If they get more power out of the same amount of fuel wouldn't they have less heat to reject?
If the power increase is only due to increased efficiency, then yes. But I've heard Ferrari prioritised engine power less to be able to have smaller radiators, for better aero. Which turned out to be the wrong strategy, perhaps Mercedes had taken a more power baised balance in their desicion, but maby there is room for even more power if they increase their cooling abilities.

Moose
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Joined: 03 Oct 2014, 19:41

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W06 Speculation Thread

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mrluke wrote:
scarbs wrote:Oddly sidepods might get bigger. Team's will be pushing the PU harder and rejecting more heat
Scarbs, can you expand on this? If they get more power out of the same amount of fuel wouldn't they have less heat to reject?
As you'll see on the previous page, increased efficiency doesn't only come from converting the same amount of fuel to kinetic energy instead of heat, it also comes from converting more of the fuel that was injected into energy of any kind rather than leaving it unburned or partially burned.

Mercedes is already rumoured to be gaining 40hp from higher pressure injectors that cause a more complete burning of the fuel, that will certainly add heat as well as power.

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WaikeCU
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Joined: 14 May 2014, 00:03

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W06 Speculation Thread

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If sidepods get bigger, then does that mean the airflow will get disturbed towards the back of the car?

OO7
OO7
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Joined: 06 Apr 2010, 17:49

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W06 Speculation Thread

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WaikeCU wrote:If sidepods get bigger, then does that mean the airflow will get disturbed towards the back of the car?
Generally speaking larger sidepods will hinder aero performance.

scarbs
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W06 Speculation Thread

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mrluke wrote:
scarbs wrote:Oddly sidepods might get bigger. Team's will be pushing the PU harder and rejecting more heat
Scarbs, can you expand on this? If they get more power out of the same amount of fuel wouldn't they have less heat to reject?
I see your point, but it doesnt quite work that way. running the engine leaner for more power, passing more power cycles through the ERS will all end up producing more heat. Heat that needs to be managed through larger coolers

ParkerArt
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Joined: 14 Jul 2014, 17:16

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W06 Speculation Thread

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scarbs wrote:
mrluke wrote:
scarbs wrote:Oddly sidepods might get bigger. Team's will be pushing the PU harder and rejecting more heat
Scarbs, can you expand on this? If they get more power out of the same amount of fuel wouldn't they have less heat to reject?
I see your point, but it doesnt quite work that way. running the engine leaner for more power, passing more power cycles through the ERS will all end up producing more heat. Heat that needs to be managed through larger coolers

That is true, the 80s turbo cars ran very rich at time as the unburnt fuel would lower exhaust temperatures. Road cars do the same, the ATF ratio gets quite rich at high rpm and engine load so you don't kill the catalytic converter(s).

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adrianjordan
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W06 Speculation Thread

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MercAMGF1Fans wrote:the other "elephant" in the room to be addressed is the NOISE!! will it be getting any louder anytime soon?
You'd have to ask Bernie. FOM is in charge of the trackside mics that are still tuned for the V8s of old...possibly even for the V10s given how out of touch Mr E is..!!
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Moose
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Joined: 03 Oct 2014, 19:41

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W06 Speculation Thread

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MercAMGF1Fans wrote:the other "elephant" in the room to be addressed is the NOISE!! will it be getting any louder anytime soon?
No, quite the reverse - as the teams make the engines better they'll get quieter, not louder.

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PlatinumZealot
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Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 03:45

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W06 Speculation Thread

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Moose. It is well known F1A are working with the engine makers to make louder engines. The sound can be made independent of the efficiency for various reasons - the sort of exhaust piping you have is one. We see how different teams with the same engine have different loudness.
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