F1technical.net

I think I have understood the fundamentals of a F1 car, so I am wondering about this, in regards to the hole underneath the nose cone where the struts lead from the nose cone to the front wing. The purpose of those struts is to direct as much air to the sidepods and especially to the diffuser and as well to hold the front wing.

My question is regards to Eddie Jordans EJ 12. were the team trying to maximize as much air into the sidepods and diffuser, by making the whole as big as possible? Also wouldn't the keels interrupt the airflow leading to the floor (underneath) or are the floor boards or are the keels above the floor boards?



Also could the teams change the nose cones of the cars for different races, a slim nose like the nose of the MP4-21 for imola (reduce drag and downforce for better straight line speed), and a big fat nose cone for Bahrain where downforce is essential?

I am doubtful of the downforce benefits of the nose shape, otherwise teams would do exactly what you suggest.

I tend to think it is something dreamed up by optimistic forum readers or that guy that does the formula1.com tech guy. I'd love to hear what the other tech heads think.

hahaha that pic reminds me what a weird car that williams was, love that keel

I doubt the struts supporting the wing has a great influence of the aero, they are of course designed not to upset the flow through under the nose. The actual nose shape does contribute to the cars aero and hence its handling, Renaults Bob Bell suggested that a wider nose over of the front wing improved balance and stability.

Hard to argue with Bob Bell

About what Bob Bell said, do you think this could be why the Renault R26 uses a wider nose than the R25 or the R26 in winter testing?

Yup... whether the new new nose was a response to a problem or a late arriving new part I dont know.

I've been thinking about this a bit more since the last post. I find it hard to believe that the pressure above and below it would be significant enough to provide downforce. If anything, the air underneath might be higher..

I think the wider nose might operate more smoothly in yaw, or it might be something as simple as keeping smooth laminar flow alongside the cockpit.

Would the gap between the struts have any influence on downforce distribution when the car is in yaw?

scarbs wrote:The actual nose shape does contribute to the cars aero and hence its handling, Renaults Bob Bell suggested that a wider nose over of the front wing improved balance and stability.

But that would only be in the case of the Renault surely. They needed some more front end grip at higher speeds, and got it from the momentum exchange of a "fatter" nosecone. I dunno if you could apply that across the board.



Zac - the downforce would just come from momentum exchange between nose and airflow - not much, but F1 is all about small differences.

For the struts, the length and gap would have an influence in tandem.

If they are very long struts, they may shield part of the wing in yaw, loosing downforce. If they are reasonably long and close together, the same may happen. But all teams would have a fairly good handle on this I'd expect.

Somebody edited my original post, did I do something wrong??????, there was a pic of the ej12 and a comment baout the ej12 had horns like the mclaren mp4-21 has now????????

kilcoo316 wrote: Zac - the downforce would just come from momentum exchange between nose and airflow - not much, but F1 is all about small differences.

That's a little bit too obvious for me

The nose is the first part of the car to "pierce" the air so its obviously an important part. The slimmer nose concept looks in theory as if it would produce less drag due to a smaller surface area, it's also possible the slimmer nose is more stable head on.

The wider nose concept looks as if it would cause more air to follow up and over the car towards the cockpit and airbox area. However, I think the benefit from a wider nose comes from the wider base, a wide opening between the two struts holding the front wing appears to be a growing trend. McLaren have adopted a slimmer nose but have retained a wide opening between the front wing mounts. Therefore, creating something that almost has the best of both worlds.

Renault R26 - wide nose

It is interesting to note that sometimes teams adopt solutions no longer used by the team that originally introduced them. Red Bull's current V keel is one example. The wide nose on the Renault is another. A very similar one was used by McLaren last year, but abandoned in favour of a much narrower design for the latest MP4-21. The advantage of a wide nose section is related to the potential increase in downforce generated by the larger surface area.

zac510 wrote:I've been thinking about this a bit more since the last post. I find it hard to believe that the pressure above and below it would be significant enough to provide downforce. If anything, the air underneath might be higher..

Why would the air underneath be at a higher pressure? The air is getting forced upward over the nose, but is allowed to pass freely underneath. As far as I'm concerned, the nose is one big wing that has a really, really low aspect ratio and no endplates. I've always wondered why they didn't put endplates on the nose cone, or at least some type of lip to keep the higher pressure air from spilling over.

Well the underside of the nose is in quite close proximity to the upper side of the front wing. I don't really know, I'm just thinking aloud.