2015 Malaysian Grand Prix - Sepang

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giantfan10
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Re: 2015 Malaysian Grand Prix - Sepang

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Chene_Mostert wrote:
giantfan10 wrote:300e that fast ??
yes it is... cars in germany are not limited to 155mph like the cars here in the us... at least they were not at the time... at the time i took the no catalytic converter option which was also available... and it was a rental lol
Maybe you were doing 211Km/h and thought the spedo was marked in Mph & erroneously tried to convert Km/h to Km/h thinking you are converting Mph? :)[/quote]
lmao i just reread my post ...300kmh is what i intended to post and i did ever bit of it

giantfan10
giantfan10
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Re: 2015 Malaysian Grand Prix - Sepang

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Chene_Mostert wrote:
giantfan10 wrote:300e that fast ??
yes it is... cars in germany are not limited to 155mph like the cars here in the us... at least they were not at the time... at the time i took the no catalytic converter option which was also available... and it was a rental lol
Maybe you were doing 211Km/h and thought the spedo was marked in Mph & erroneously tried to convert Km/h to Km/h thinking you are converting Mph? :)[/quote]
lmao i just reread my post ...300kmh is what i intended to post and i did ever bit of it

ferkan
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Re: 2015 Malaysian Grand Prix - Sepang

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dans79 wrote: I think it's a very good comparisons, because it highlights how a teams strategy call could drastically effect the outcome of the race.
What would happened if Mercedes didn't pit Hamilton? As I said, there is no proof that Mercedes had race pace advantage over Ferrari at Malaysia tyre degradation or not. By 4th lap Ham couldn't make gap between him and Vettel bigger then 1 second. I guess he would be overtaken in few lap time, considering degradation and Ferrari's lack of.

dans79 wrote: As I and several others have said, that's because the tire/pit-stop strategy Merc decided to run was idiotic.
No it wasn't. Actually, everyone thought it was so smart from them to pit at that time. Free pitstop and 10 second traffic penalty, instead of one full? I'll guess everyone would gladly take that.

giantfan10
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Re: 2015 Malaysian Grand Prix - Sepang

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godlameroso wrote:
Andres125sx wrote:
turbof1 wrote: -Ferrari looked to have been underestimated during testing, even though they did those tests well. Their car is massively better then last year.
This remind me... last week I watched an interview with Roberto Merhi, Manor driver. Manor use Ferrari engine, but 2014 version.

He said their´re willing to receive 2015 unit, wich is 2 seconds quicker :o

Not sure how that compares to the rest of the PU´s, but that´s surely a huge step forward

He also said when they can upgrade to 2015 car it will be around 1,5 seconds quicker, so when using 2015 car and 2015 PU they will be around 3.5 seconds quicker. Even so they will be last on the grid, but then pretty close to the rest.

I can´t imagine how excited they must be about this, improving 3.5 seconds/lap must be... :o :wtf: =P~ =D>

Probably one of the biggest improvements from one race to the next (whatever it is, the next or in 4 months) in F1 history
It doesn't add up evenly like that, it's the rule of diminishing returns. They probably say their total package will improve by moving to 2015 components.

Ferrari was on average about a second and a half per lap faster than last year. Mercedes also improved but only one second per lap on average. In fact just about everyone gained about 1 to 1 1/2 seconds.
thats some very fuzzy math.. all of it...you are basing these numbers on what?..the times they did last year with different temperatures/wind speed and direction and more than likely fuel loads? after 2 races on completely different tracks?.... hmmmm dunno

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Andres125sx
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Re: 2015 Malaysian Grand Prix - Sepang

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godlameroso wrote:
Andres125sx wrote:
turbof1 wrote: -Ferrari looked to have been underestimated during testing, even though they did those tests well. Their car is massively better then last year.
This remind me... last week I watched an interview with Roberto Merhi, Manor driver. Manor use Ferrari engine, but 2014 version.

He said their´re willing to receive 2015 unit, wich is 2 seconds quicker :o

Not sure how that compares to the rest of the PU´s, but that´s surely a huge step forward

He also said when they can upgrade to 2015 car it will be around 1,5 seconds quicker, so when using 2015 car and 2015 PU they will be around 3.5 seconds quicker. Even so they will be last on the grid, but then pretty close to the rest.

I can´t imagine how excited they must be about this, improving 3.5 seconds/lap must be... :o :wtf: =P~ =D>

Probably one of the biggest improvements from one race to the next (whatever it is, the next or in 4 months) in F1 history
It doesn't add up evenly like that, it's the rule of diminishing returns. They probably say their total package will improve by moving to 2015 components.

Ferrari was on average about a second and a half per lap faster than last year. Mercedes also improved but only one second per lap on average. In fact just about everyone gained about 1 to 1 1/2 seconds.
If Mercedes improved 1 second per lap, and Ferrari closed the gap, obviously Ferrari improved more than 1.5 second per lap. Specially considering Ferrari was 4th fastest last season and this one they´re 2nd at least, so they surely improved more than the rest

To me I´d say those 2 seconds Merhi said are not crazy at all, maybe 1.8 instead of 2 but who cares, that´s a huge improvement for a mark II PU

And sorry but if you both disagree, I´ll keep with Merhi´s opinion. He´s driving a Ferrari PU after all

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dans79
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Re: 2015 Malaysian Grand Prix - Sepang

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ferkan wrote:
dans79 wrote: I think it's a very good comparisons, because it highlights how a teams strategy call could drastically effect the outcome of the race.
What would happened if Mercedes didn't pit Hamilton? As I said, there is no proof that Mercedes had race pace advantage over Ferrari at Malaysia tyre degradation or not. By 4th lap Ham couldn't make gap between him and Vettel bigger then 1 second. I guess he would be overtaken in few lap time, considering degradation and Ferrari's lack of.

It would have forced Vettel to make a pass on track. Thus he would have spent a few laps in Hamilton wake (dirt air), wearing his tires more than he did running away at the front after the restart. He also would have to push after he got by so Lewis didn't pass him back using DRS. This could have forced Ferrari into a 3 stop Strategy. It also would have made Mercs subsequent stints shorter.

I stand by what I said, Merc's tire strategy was idiotic.
* Running Mediums in q2 was part of it.
* Stopping on lap 4, turned the 3 stop strategy into a really long 2 stop strategy
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Manoah2u
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Re: 2015 Malaysian Grand Prix - Sepang

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dans79 wrote:[
* Stopping on lap 4, turned the 3 stop strategy into a really long 2 stop strategy
there you have it.

let's say a complete pitstop cost about 28 seconds.

then 2 pitstops costs a total of 56 seconds
then 3 pitstops costs a total of 84 seconds

you lose this time regardless of what you do.

however, if new x-tires give you an advantage back of about 2 seconds per lap, then in 14 laps, the 3rd pitstop equals itself out.

so then, if you have a 60-lap race,
if you run a 2-stop strategy, then you need to stop at lap 20, and then on lap 40, to reach the 60 laps.
if you run a 3-stop strategy, then you need to stop at lap 15, then at lap 30, and then at lap 45 to reach the 60 laps.

if you instead do a pitstop at lap 4 instead of lap 15, you lose the benefit of tires that have more grip over 15 laps because the tires now fitted must run either 11 laps longer then intended, or the now fitted tires and the next tires each must run 5 1/2 laps longer then originally intended strategywise.

either way, you lose the benefit of 2 second faster pace thanks to grippier tires over a total of 11 laps, which means you lose 22 seconds. probably this is a slight over-estimate on loss of benefit through wear by running 5 1/2 laps more then intended, so let's just halve the benefit to 1 second, which still is 11 seconds in total.

result? to lose the race.

Vettel won with a 8 1/2 -second advantage. If Merc had held to the original tire strategy, then Lewis would have won with atleast a 2 1/2 second lead over Vettel, and thus had maintained the WIN.

i wonder why they chose to pit at the 4th lap instead of the 15th lap in this case.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
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ferkan
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Re: 2015 Malaysian Grand Prix - Sepang

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dans79 wrote:
ferkan wrote:
dans79 wrote: I think it's a very good comparisons, because it highlights how a teams strategy call could drastically effect the outcome of the race.
What would happened if Mercedes didn't pit Hamilton? As I said, there is no proof that Mercedes had race pace advantage over Ferrari at Malaysia tyre degradation or not. By 4th lap Ham couldn't make gap between him and Vettel bigger then 1 second. I guess he would be overtaken in few lap time, considering degradation and Ferrari's lack of.

It would have forced Vettel to make a pass on track. Thus he would have spent a few laps in Hamilton wake (dirt air), wearing his tires more than he did running away at the front after the restart. He also would have to push after he got by so Lewis didn't pass him back using DRS. This could have forced Ferrari into a 3 stop Strategy. It also would have made Mercs subsequent stints shorter.

I stand by what I said, Merc's tire strategy was idiotic.
* Running Mediums in q2 was part of it.
* Stopping on lap 4, turned the 3 stop strategy into a really long 2 stop strategy
It would also mean Merc would have to do real 3 pit stops, so that means ~28 sec penalty not 10 sec. It also means Hamiltons tires would drop of very very fast. Those were used mediums under full tank. His longest stint on mediums was 14 laps with less fuel, so I guess he would have to pit by lap 10 at most. He would be passed on track before as well. I suspect defeat would be even bigger tbh.

With your point about using mediums in Q I agree. But nonetheless they always were going for 3 stops and no strategy that day would have saved them the defeat.

Vettel won by same difference they continued the race after SC (his last lap was 1.5 sec slower, he was cruising) so that means Merc had nothing left for Ferrari in Sepang. Makes China all more interesting Im sure all would agree.

Richard
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Re: 2015 Malaysian Grand Prix - Sepang

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This has turned into a fanboy fest with the usual postage of ifs, buts and maybes leading to never ending circular arguments.