Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
Tzk
17
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2018 11:49 am

Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Tzk » Thu Apr 11, 2019 10:34 pm

Regarding the fuel:
Have the rules changed regarding the fuel spec btween different teams? Afaik last year ferrari used some special fuel which they offered to haas and sauber, but both teams declined the offer because the fuel was too expensive.

I guess that they do the same this year and hence the ferrari smells different to haas and sauber.

mzso
9
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2014 1:52 pm

Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by mzso » Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:26 pm

Tzk wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 10:34 pm
Regarding the fuel:
Have the rules changed regarding the fuel spec btween different teams? Afaik last year ferrari used some special fuel which they offered to haas and sauber, but both teams declined the offer because the fuel was too expensive.

I guess that they do the same this year and hence the ferrari smells different to haas and sauber.
Any reference to this? This is the first I hear about it.

santos
35
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2014 3:48 pm

Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by santos » Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:30 pm

Tzk wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 10:34 pm
Regarding the fuel:
Have the rules changed regarding the fuel spec btween different teams? Afaik last year ferrari used some special fuel which they offered to haas and sauber, but both teams declined the offer because the fuel was too expensive.

I guess that they do the same this year and hence the ferrari smells different to haas and sauber.
They don't have to use the same fuel. Renault uses Castrol, McLaren is Petrobras.

Tzk
17
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2018 11:49 am

Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Tzk » Fri Apr 12, 2019 1:15 am

mzso wrote: Any reference to this? This is the first I hear about it.
I read this in a motorsport.com article last year. Iirc in the 2nd half of the season. Might have been gunther steiner who mentioned this, but im not 100% sure about him mentioning it.

@santos
Yes, customer teams may use different fuel, but isnt the manufacturer forced (through rules or a technical directive) to at least offer identical engine specs to all customers?

Also, hasnt mclaren postponed the petrobras swap?

C Plinius Secundus
7
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 8:06 pm

Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by C Plinius Secundus » Fri Apr 12, 2019 2:55 am

santos wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:30 pm

They don't have to use the same fuel. Renault uses Castrol, McLaren is Petrobras.
Many aspects of the engine are designed in close collaboration with the fuel supplier, switching is not so simple, what sometimes happened is that when a team switched from petrol supplier A to supplier B, the latter just buyed the fuel from supplier A and rebranded the drums, tanks, filling gear, etc. At least that's how it used to be, remember that, after all, it's about bussines...

saviour stivala
-8
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:54 am

Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by saviour stivala » Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:15 am

A customer supplied with an engine to be used with different fuel to that used by the engine supplier will have to be dyno tuned by the engine supplier using fuel the customer intends to use. Apart from this tuning being extra work and time for the supplier, it gives the supplier extra information of running the engine on different fuel to his regular supply. Also engines supplied tuned on different fuel to that used by the supplier is as regards the rules regarded as of the same specification as that of the engine dyno tuned to run on different fuel.

Nonserviam85
9
Joined: Fri May 17, 2013 10:21 am

Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Nonserviam85 » Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:41 am

As I understand it by now,McLaren has not started using Petrobras fuel yet.

erikejw
4
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:32 pm

Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by erikejw » Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:35 pm

zibby43 wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:21 pm
https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... ht-gerade/

Power deficit difficult to make up

Some excerpts:

"Mercedes has observed a power explosion in the engine at Ferrari in Bahrain. Ferrari insists that air resistance (drag) plays a major role. Who is right? We asked around in both camps."

"Team boss Toto Wolff put the proportion of air resistance at a maximum of one tenth. This would give three tenths of the engine power. His colleague Mattia Binotto thinks this is exaggerated: 'I looked at the Mercedes rear wing. They drove in Bahrain with clearly more downforce than we did.' For the Ferrari boss, air resistance therefore plays the decisive role."

"Binotto also explains this by comparing Ferrari and its customer teams. HaasF1 did much worse on the straights than Sauber. The Swiss would have shown a very similar speed profile on the straights as the factory team. HaasF1 on the other hand lost six tenths. It is known from HaasF1 that they were on the road with a lot of downforce."

"The Mercedes engineers don't want to be blinded by the theory of drag. 'Ferrari was much faster than us in both [DRS and non-DRS] conditions. That's why the drag factor couldn't have played a big role.'"

​"According to Mercedes, the difference between Ferrari and its customer teams can also be explained by the fact that the factory racing team drives with a different specification of petrol and oil. "

"Mercedes wants to watch in Shanghai whether the pattern shown in Bahrain repeats itself on a completely different type of track. "
Nice summary.

Of course there is a huge amount of drag even when DRS is enabled, that why its called drag reduction system and not 0 drag system.

Toto is too polititical, too much fog and deception for my taste.

Remember the years RB dominated, they were always slow in speed traps but had superior down force. Its a design choice and why Mercedes is quicker in slow corners.

3jawchuck
32
User avatar
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2015 7:57 am

Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by 3jawchuck » Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:30 pm

Seems that both Ferrari cars used a new control electronics for China, as did both the Haas cars (FIA Document 7). Not sure what, if any, relevance that has to Bahrain issues.

subcritical71
66
User avatar
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:04 pm
Location: USA-Virginia

Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by subcritical71 » Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:39 pm

3jawchuck wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:30 pm
Seems that both Ferrari cars used a new control electronics for China, as did both the Haas cars (FIA Document 7). Not sure what, if any, relevance that has to Bahrain issues.
It was a precaution due to LEC electronics gremlin in Bahrain.

saviour stivala
-8
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:54 am

Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by saviour stivala » Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:06 am

Five out of the six FERRARI engine cars were using the old type of CE in China.

subcritical71
66
User avatar
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:04 pm
Location: USA-Virginia

Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by subcritical71 » Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:11 pm

saviour stivala wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:06 am
Five out of the six FERRARI engine cars were using the old type of CE in China.
Document 7 from the race, released by the technical delegate, show that VET, LEC, MAG, and GRO all took new CE and will start the event with it.

https://www.fia.com/file/79404/download

saviour stivala
-8
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:54 am

Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by saviour stivala » Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:43 pm

As also did number 99 Alfa Romeo.

Mattchu
30
User avatar
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 6:37 pm

Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Mattchu » Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:48 pm

subcritical71 wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:11 pm
saviour stivala wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:06 am
Five out of the six FERRARI engine cars were using the old type of CE in China.
Document 7 from the race, released by the technical delegate, show that VET, LEC, MAG, and GRO all took new CE and will start the event with it.

https://www.fia.com/file/79404/download
They reverted to the old spec but had new units fitted so will have 1 old spec and 1 new spec for the season. This surely isn`t the Mclaren supplied unit which all the teams use [or is it?] as I was under the impression that was a standarized part which all teams must use.

Image

Edit:
Seems that the latest McLaren/TAG powertrain control unit is the 320, maybe Ferrari introduced a newer unit ahead of schedule and it has some gremlins.

Found this exert from a while ago...
Ferrari have chosen to introduce - ahead of schedule - the new TAG-310B ECU control unit that will be used in 2014
Very confusing :?

subcritical71
66
User avatar
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:04 pm
Location: USA-Virginia

Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by subcritical71 » Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:23 pm

Mattchu wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:48 pm
They reverted to the old spec but had new units fitted so will have 1 old spec and 1 new spec for the season. This surely isn`t the Mclaren supplied unit which all the teams use [or is it?] as I was under the impression that was a standarized part which all teams must use.

Edit:
Seems that the latest McLaren/TAG powertrain control unit is the 320, maybe Ferrari introduced a newer unit ahead of schedule and it has some gremlins.
Yeah, when I mentioned 'new', I was meaning new in regards to their allotment for the season as that is the only thing reported by the FIA.

When it comes to the CE portion of the PU I have a tough time determining what it really is. Is it just the ECU, does it include the CU (K & H), what about the Injector Controller that was a problem last week or was the injector controller part of the ECU(?).

McLaren did release the TAG-320B earlier this year. Not much, if anything mentioned about it other than this tweet. I don't know if it is mandatory or not. Also, I don't know which team are running it.


GIO in the Alfa also had to take a 'new' CE for the race due to issues during qualifying. The following was replaced in parc fermé.
Alfa Romeo Racing Ferrari:
 
Car 99:           CU power box (new)
                      TPMS of first Q1 tyre set
                      Cylinder #1 spark plug
                      Cylinder #1 ignition coil
                      LHS and RHS fuel lift pump filter