Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
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hollus
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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mizarbarym wrote:
Sat Aug 14, 2021 11:28 am
Some details for Next update of power unit Ferrari:

https://www.funoanalisitecnica.com ... ion=true
Hi mizarbarym, welcome to the forum.

That article is in italian, please be kind enough to add a few sentences of english summary or the 2-3 main points, in english. Thanks.
I would like to see a paleontologist.

Ced
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post

mizarbarym wrote:
Sat Aug 14, 2021 11:28 am
Some details for Next update of power unit Ferrari:

https://www.funoanalisitecnica.com ... ion=true
Quite relevant to upgrade the ICE. Ferrari has always been strong on the hybrid side

Marty_Y
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post

hollus wrote:
Sat Aug 14, 2021 4:41 pm
mizarbarym wrote:
Sat Aug 14, 2021 11:28 am
Some details for Next update of power unit Ferrari:

https://www.funoanalisitecnica.com ... ion=true
Hi mizarbarym, welcome to the forum.

That article is in italian, please be kind enough to add a few sentences of english summary or the 2-3 main points, in english. Thanks.
English translation, it's a bit rough but you can get the gist of it.

Background: Why can Ferrari introduce a revised Power Unit in various components?
Diego Catalano Diego Catalano
11 hours ago

F1
a shot of the Power unit mounted on Charles Leclerc's Ferrari Sf21 during the 2021 season

All that remains is to wait. The introduction of the new Ferrari power unit is lacking less and less, which should represent an important upgrade . A card to play both in the fight for third place in the current F1 championship , and as a basis for development for what will be resolved at the beginning of 2022 , a moment that will mark the substantial freezing of the engines until 2025 or, in the worst case scenario, until to 2026. The debate on the date is still ongoing ( read here to learn more ).

What technical improvements will the Maranello engineers presumably bring to Sochi over the weekend of 24-26 September? We gave you an account yesterday in a specific study that reveals the secrets of the revamped V6 ( click here to find out all the details ). This article, on the other hand, aims to answer another question of no secondary importance:

F1- Why, in a situation where developments are frozen, Ferrari, unlike other engineers, can allow itself to make various and significant changes to its hybrid turbo engine?
We see…


F1
Carlos Sainz (Scuderia Ferrari) launches push for a ride in Fp1 of the Grand Prix of Hungary Edition 2021 , which will test the hybrid configuration
Let's take a step back to the 2020 season when, due to the financial crisis caused by the Covid 19 pandemic , a sort of regulatory freeze was introduced. Which, however, is not total. Indeed, the term freezing is incorrect. Rather, we should talk about homologation rules that block specifications at a given time of the year . In the long winter break at the beginning of 2020 , the parts subject to "block" were defined: the internal combustion engine (ICE), the turbo, the MGU-K, the MGU-H, the electronic control unit, the batteries that accumulate the energy, the exhaust system, the oil circuit and the petrol circuit.

The homologation of these areas was immortalized in July 2020, when the season began. So, how is it possible that Ferrari can present significant innovations? The rules state that MGU-K, electronic control unit and battery packs could be modified between 2020 and 2021. While all the other parts (ICE, turbo, MGU-H, exhaust system, oil and petrol circuit) they could be renewed in 2021, at any time starting from the end of 2020 throughout the current championship.

Ferrari, which had introduced the second seasonal power unit in Baku, still used deliberate elements in the past season . He now has the opportunity to bring news to those areas he had left immaculate . Of course, at Maranello they do not unbutton them and do not say which elements are subject to revision. But, probably, on the basis of information collected by us, we can say that the innovations will essentially affect two areas: ICE and the hybrid part .


F1
a click of the power unit mounted on the Ferrari Sf21 of Charles Leclerc during the season 2021
Let's start with the endothermic . Ferrari technicians carried out targeted work on the internal components of the ICE . The more or less declared objective is to increase the efficiency of the combustion chamber leading to a marked decrease in consumption . On the hybrid front , on the other hand, the aim will be to improve the ratio between energy generated and that spent over a lap.

This is one of the aspects on which the Maranello V6 is most deficient compared to the competition, with Honda and above all Mercedes representing the reference point. The current problem is that the electrical part is also used to compensate for the deficiencies of the endothermic part . So the riders can count, in the single lap, on less time of use of the hybrid's maximum power. The new specifications should solve - partially and totally we will understand it only in the course of construction - this kind of problem .

What Ferrari will introduce after Monza will also be decisive for the future as what will be resolved in 2022 will remain constant until the end of 2025 and the only possibilities for modification will depend on overcoming any issues relating to reliability. Not a simple process because any upgrade will have to be screened and approved by the FIA . There is not much time available which is why the Racing Department headed by Mattia Binotto ( read here the latest considerations on the Swiss) played the card of delaying some developments that could have been introduced before the world championship began.


F1
Mattia Binotto , team principal of the historic Scuderia F and rrari, at the command post inside the garage
In fact, next year, on March 1, the following elements will have to be resolved which, we recall, will last between three and four seasons, depending on what will be established in the coming months: ICE, turbo, MGU-H, exhaust, hydraulic system and fuel system . There will be more time, precisely until September 1, 2022, to bring the definitive versions of MGU-K, batteries and electronic control unit .

It really should be said that the future is today . In Ferrari they cannot afford any missteps because in Russia (even if there is no official confirmation, ed. ) The foundations are being laid for the next four years. And arriving late would mean paying a performance deficit that cannot be bridged until the presentation of the new drive units whose characteristics are still the subject of extensive and heated discussions.

Ced
Ced
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Joined: Tue May 08, 2018 5:47 pm

Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post

Marty_Y wrote:
Sat Aug 14, 2021 7:01 pm
hollus wrote:
Sat Aug 14, 2021 4:41 pm
mizarbarym wrote:
Sat Aug 14, 2021 11:28 am
Some details for Next update of power unit Ferrari:

https://www.funoanalisitecnica.com ... ion=true
Hi mizarbarym, welcome to the forum.

That article is in italian, please be kind enough to add a few sentences of english summary or the 2-3 main points, in english. Thanks.
English translation, it's a bit rough but you can get the gist of it.

Background: Why can Ferrari introduce a revised Power Unit in various components?
Diego Catalano Diego Catalano
11 hours ago

F1
a shot of the Power unit mounted on Charles Leclerc's Ferrari Sf21 during the 2021 season

All that remains is to wait. The introduction of the new Ferrari power unit is lacking less and less, which should represent an important upgrade . A card to play both in the fight for third place in the current F1 championship , and as a basis for development for what will be resolved at the beginning of 2022 , a moment that will mark the substantial freezing of the engines until 2025 or, in the worst case scenario, until to 2026. The debate on the date is still ongoing ( read here to learn more ).

What technical improvements will the Maranello engineers presumably bring to Sochi over the weekend of 24-26 September? We gave you an account yesterday in a specific study that reveals the secrets of the revamped V6 ( click here to find out all the details ). This article, on the other hand, aims to answer another question of no secondary importance:

F1- Why, in a situation where developments are frozen, Ferrari, unlike other engineers, can allow itself to make various and significant changes to its hybrid turbo engine?
We see…


F1
Carlos Sainz (Scuderia Ferrari) launches push for a ride in Fp1 of the Grand Prix of Hungary Edition 2021 , which will test the hybrid configuration
Let's take a step back to the 2020 season when, due to the financial crisis caused by the Covid 19 pandemic , a sort of regulatory freeze was introduced. Which, however, is not total. Indeed, the term freezing is incorrect. Rather, we should talk about homologation rules that block specifications at a given time of the year . In the long winter break at the beginning of 2020 , the parts subject to "block" were defined: the internal combustion engine (ICE), the turbo, the MGU-K, the MGU-H, the electronic control unit, the batteries that accumulate the energy, the exhaust system, the oil circuit and the petrol circuit.

The homologation of these areas was immortalized in July 2020, when the season began. So, how is it possible that Ferrari can present significant innovations? The rules state that MGU-K, electronic control unit and battery packs could be modified between 2020 and 2021. While all the other parts (ICE, turbo, MGU-H, exhaust system, oil and petrol circuit) they could be renewed in 2021, at any time starting from the end of 2020 throughout the current championship.

Ferrari, which had introduced the second seasonal power unit in Baku, still used deliberate elements in the past season . He now has the opportunity to bring news to those areas he had left immaculate . Of course, at Maranello they do not unbutton them and do not say which elements are subject to revision. But, probably, on the basis of information collected by us, we can say that the innovations will essentially affect two areas: ICE and the hybrid part .


F1
a click of the power unit mounted on the Ferrari Sf21 of Charles Leclerc during the season 2021
Let's start with the endothermic . Ferrari technicians carried out targeted work on the internal components of the ICE . The more or less declared objective is to increase the efficiency of the combustion chamber leading to a marked decrease in consumption . On the hybrid front , on the other hand, the aim will be to improve the ratio between energy generated and that spent over a lap.

This is one of the aspects on which the Maranello V6 is most deficient compared to the competition, with Honda and above all Mercedes representing the reference point. The current problem is that the electrical part is also used to compensate for the deficiencies of the endothermic part . So the riders can count, in the single lap, on less time of use of the hybrid's maximum power. The new specifications should solve - partially and totally we will understand it only in the course of construction - this kind of problem .

What Ferrari will introduce after Monza will also be decisive for the future as what will be resolved in 2022 will remain constant until the end of 2025 and the only possibilities for modification will depend on overcoming any issues relating to reliability. Not a simple process because any upgrade will have to be screened and approved by the FIA . There is not much time available which is why the Racing Department headed by Mattia Binotto ( read here the latest considerations on the Swiss) played the card of delaying some developments that could have been introduced before the world championship began.


F1
Mattia Binotto , team principal of the historic Scuderia F and rrari, at the command post inside the garage
In fact, next year, on March 1, the following elements will have to be resolved which, we recall, will last between three and four seasons, depending on what will be established in the coming months: ICE, turbo, MGU-H, exhaust, hydraulic system and fuel system . There will be more time, precisely until September 1, 2022, to bring the definitive versions of MGU-K, batteries and electronic control unit .

It really should be said that the future is today . In Ferrari they cannot afford any missteps because in Russia (even if there is no official confirmation, ed. ) The foundations are being laid for the next four years. And arriving late would mean paying a performance deficit that cannot be bridged until the presentation of the new drive units whose characteristics are still the subject of extensive and heated discussions.
You basically google translated it. But thanks 👍🏽
My question now is will sainz and Leclerc (more particularly) take grid penalties for taking the new engine ?

Ced
Ced
0
Joined: Tue May 08, 2018 5:47 pm

Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post

hollus wrote:
Sat Aug 14, 2021 4:41 pm
mizarbarym wrote:
Sat Aug 14, 2021 11:28 am
Some details for Next update of power unit Ferrari:

https://www.funoanalisitecnica.com ... ion=true
Hi mizarbarym, welcome to the forum.

That article is in italian, please be kind enough to add a few sentences of english summary or the 2-3 main points, in english. Thanks.
To sum up, the upgrade accordingly (ICE and hybrid parts) should improve consumption (ICE) allowing them to make the hybrid part work more optimally. In fact, Ferrari was overworking that side to compensate the weakness of the ICE compared to the best.

Ferrari are able to upgrade because some parts are still from 2020 specs. They deliberately choose to do that to be able to develop more...

They are bringing this upgrade for some experiments with 2022 in mind. It's also said that the probable date for its introduction is around Sochi.

bergie88
bergie88
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post

basti313 wrote:
Fri Aug 13, 2021 2:22 pm
Ced wrote:
Fri Aug 13, 2021 1:08 pm
sosic2121 wrote:
Fri Aug 13, 2021 1:03 pm

If what Mika Salo said was true, 2020 pu was penalised with lower fuel flow. So maybe engine wasn't as bad as you think. And it looked even worse because of draggy car
I think that Mika salo comment was a bad joke franckly
Not really, it is technically the only explanation that really makes sense to me.
Ferrari was miles ahead in ICE power. Miles in this case is a few percent. These few percent were tricked with fuel and whatever trick it was, it was small. They would not have been miles ahead with an inefficient engine. The engine was good and the trick brought it to the top.
With the removal of the trick you can explain to be slightly behind Merc or Honda and on level of Renault...but not being suddenly significantly behind Renault.
My explanation would be that the complete powertrain was fully optimized for the higher (tricked) fuel flow which was working less efficient than the rest at the "normal" fuel flow, since I really cannot believe that Ferrari accepted a penalty which is running at a lower maximal fuel flow rate than the rest.

As you mentioned already we are talking about a few percentages difference, so having the ERS and turbocharger for instance sized at the sweet spot for the higher fuel flow will already give you the few percentages less power when running at the "normal" fuel flow.

mzso
mzso
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Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2014 1:52 pm

Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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I'm a little fuzzy about the details. So Ferrari will be upgrading the ICE, right?

And if I remember correctly there's one more upgrade next year for everyone. Can Ferrari play the same game? Use this engine and and only introduce the final spec later in the year?

Renault keeps mentioning that they use the same PU from last year. I wonder why don't they do the same. Is the PU so different in size that it won't fit in the car?

JPower
JPower
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Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:06 am

Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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mzso wrote:
Mon Aug 16, 2021 5:48 pm
I'm a little fuzzy about the details. So Ferrari will be upgrading the ICE, right?

And if I remember correctly there's one more upgrade next year for everyone. Can Ferrari play the same game? Use this engine and and only introduce the final spec later in the year?

Renault keeps mentioning that they use the same PU from last year. I wonder why don't they do the same. Is the PU so different in size that it won't fit in the car?
I don't think anyone has a definitive answer of what's going to be changed.

There is a homologation deadline next September. At that point, the engines will be frozen until 2025.

Renault isn't bringing any upgrades because they are releasing a totally new engine with a new architecture. Nothing to do with today's engine.

tpe
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Location: Greece

Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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For 2022, the homologation for ICE, MGU-H is March 1st. I think only CE, ES, MGU-K can be homologated at September 1st.

ryaan2904
ryaan2904
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Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:45 am

Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Here's that funoanalistica Ferrari engine update article in English.

https://www.funoanalisitecnica.com/2021 ... f21-4.html

They've started doing this recently, imo, in response the 'scuderia fans' site, which was stealing their articles word-to-word and posting them in English.
CFD Eyes of Sauron

bosyber
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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tpe wrote:
Mon Aug 16, 2021 11:47 pm
For 2022, the homologation for ICE, MGU-H is March 1st. I think only CE, ES, MGU-K can be homologated at September 1st.
That's also my understanding. So might well be that Ferrari, with these new 'halfway 2021' components can keep working on CE,ES and MGU-K until September next year, while, for example, Renault, bringing a completely new layout for next year, will have to also update those parts early in the year; I guess with largely unchanged ICE, both Honda/Red Bull and Mercedes will also aim to start the season with those components as they are now, while working until September to update them for the coming freeze.

mzso
mzso
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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ryaan2904 wrote:
Tue Aug 17, 2021 4:42 am
Here's that funoanalistica Ferrari engine update article in English.

https://www.funoanalisitecnica.com/2021 ... f21-4.html

They've started doing this recently, imo, in response the 'scuderia fans' site, which was stealing their articles word-to-word and posting them in English.
So, basically they say that new ICE and "hybrid part". Whatever the latter is supposed to be. By the looks of it they just mean more regen and more usable electric power. (Not really a new component, but only different settings)
What was the point of this though:
The rules state that MGU-K, electronic control unit and battery packs could be modified between 2020 and 2021. While all the other parts (ICE, turbo, MGU-H, exhaust system, oil and fuel circuit) could be updated in 2021, at any time starting from the end of 2020 throughout the current championship.
So the first bunch of components had to upgraded before the season, but the other can be upgraded any time.
tpe wrote:
Mon Aug 16, 2021 11:47 pm
For 2022, the homologation for ICE, MGU-H is March 1st. I think only CE, ES, MGU-K can be homologated at September 1st.
The article also confirms this.
Though I don't get what's the point. Homologate before the PUs could be used in action. Are they hell bent on someone (who makes a bad decision) getting screwed? (Would probably be Renault or Ferrari, if anyone)

mzso
mzso
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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JPower wrote:
Mon Aug 16, 2021 6:26 pm
Renault isn't bringing any upgrades because they are releasing a totally new engine with a new architecture. Nothing to do with today's engine.
But still, there's the opportunity to improve this year's PU, and/or test stuff for next year. I would imagine the combustion chamber and other stuff can be used with whatever architecture they have.

JPower
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Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:06 am

Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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mzso wrote:
Tue Aug 17, 2021 1:05 pm
JPower wrote:
Mon Aug 16, 2021 6:26 pm
Renault isn't bringing any upgrades because they are releasing a totally new engine with a new architecture. Nothing to do with today's engine.
But still, there's the opportunity to improve this year's PU, and/or test stuff for next year. I would imagine the combustion chamber and other stuff can be used with whatever architecture they have.
You imagine but there's a large chance that's not the case. Not to get further off topic here Renault is changing to a split turbo architecture like Mercedes and Honda. It will have no commonality with today's PU.

As for introducing upgrades during the season, I don't think Binotto would be doing this unless he felt it was a significant enough difference to grab them P3 in the WCC despite his insistence that the P3 isn't important.

Xwang
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post

JPower wrote:
Tue Aug 17, 2021 4:20 pm
mzso wrote:
Tue Aug 17, 2021 1:05 pm
JPower wrote:
Mon Aug 16, 2021 6:26 pm
Renault isn't bringing any upgrades because they are releasing a totally new engine with a new architecture. Nothing to do with today's engine.
But still, there's the opportunity to improve this year's PU, and/or test stuff for next year. I would imagine the combustion chamber and other stuff can be used with whatever architecture they have.
You imagine but there's a large chance that's not the case. Not to get further off topic here Renault is changing to a split turbo architecture like Mercedes and Honda. It will have no commonality with today's PU.

As for introducing upgrades during the season, I don't think Binotto would be doing this unless he felt it was a significant enough difference to grab them P3 in the WCC despite his insistence that the P3 isn't important.
I'm wondering if introducing this delayed updated 2021 component is a (perhaps) smart way to have additional data from track usage in a year in which dyno testing is limited.
I'm still learning English so please excuse me if my English is not good enough and feel free to correct me via PM if you want.