Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
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codetower
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Xwang wrote:
Tue Aug 17, 2021 4:42 pm
JPower wrote:
Tue Aug 17, 2021 4:20 pm

You imagine but there's a large chance that's not the case. Not to get further off topic here Renault is changing to a split turbo architecture like Mercedes and Honda. It will have no commonality with today's PU.

As for introducing upgrades during the season, I don't think Binotto would be doing this unless he felt it was a significant enough difference to grab them P3 in the WCC despite his insistence that the P3 isn't important.
I'm wondering if introducing this delayed updated 2021 component is a (perhaps) smart way to have additional data from track usage in a year in which dyno testing is limited.
I thought this as well. To me, this is more a test of the parts for the 2022 engine, on real tracks with real racing... With the added benefit of securing P3 this year. What better way to see if your development for 2022 and beyond is headed in the right direction.
Success is a lousy teacher. It seduces smart people into thinking they can't lose.

tpe
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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What puzzles me though, is the alleged change of the ICE.
The ICE is one component, so yoy cannot modify the combustion chamber for example.
Meaning, that the ICE is either the same as in 2020, or the article tries hard to convince us about a change in the ICE.
If the ICE is the same as in 2020, then something is not right. Anyway, I guess we will find out in a few weeks

mzso
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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JPower wrote:
Tue Aug 17, 2021 4:20 pm
As for introducing upgrades during the season, I don't think Binotto would be doing this unless he felt it was a significant enough difference to grab them P3 in the WCC despite his insistence that the P3 isn't important.
I think it's a development strategy. Push out all developments they can. Try, test, analyze, then take the knowledge to improve next year's PU further.
I'm not sure if they moved to split turbo or not though. Or whether they also plan large scale changes.
Xwang wrote:
Tue Aug 17, 2021 4:42 pm
I'm wondering if introducing this delayed updated 2021 component is a (perhaps) smart way to have additional data from track usage in a year in which dyno testing is limited.
It feels like it.

mzso
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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tpe wrote:
Tue Aug 17, 2021 10:24 pm
What puzzles me though, is the alleged change of the ICE.
The ICE is one component, so yoy cannot modify the combustion chamber for example.
Meaning, that the ICE is either the same as in 2020, or the article tries hard to convince us about a change in the ICE.
If the ICE is the same as in 2020, then something is not right. Anyway, I guess we will find out in a few weeks
True. They perform much better with it, if it's last year's ICE.

tpe
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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If the ICE is the same as in 2020, then how did they manage to "gain" so much this year?
Unless, the rumours that we heard last year about the "punishment" of lower fuel flow are true.

JPower
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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tpe wrote:
Wed Aug 18, 2021 10:52 pm
If the ICE is the same as in 2020, then how did they manage to "gain" so much this year?
Unless, the rumours that we heard last year about the "punishment" of lower fuel flow are true.
It's not the same. Ferrari said they worked on the ICE, hybrid system, and revised the turbo for this year.

What's interesting is that Ferrari stated the car dropped a tenth due to better efficiency from the ICE before the season. That may have been conservative. They are now quoting the same time for the new PU revisions.

tpe
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Exactly.
That's why I find it (at least) strange when a site claims that Ferrari will update the ICE.
From what I understand, they can upgrade the CE, MKU-K and the battery, and maybe the MGU-H.

All of that, based on the information/rumors about what they have changed so far (ICE, Turbo).

FDD
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Not very clear, but it leaves room for ICE upgrade also "in coming months" maybe they think on the winter months? difficult to give precise answer:
"During last winter in Maranello they made an interesting decision : they kept in their pocket the possibility to update the specification of the power unit.

The move gave the Italian team not only a few important months of development but also the possibility (not the certainty given that the decision was taken during the current season following the steps forward at the benches) to test them on the track and verify the improvements on the end of the season, which has been a mirage in F1 for years. This meant, however, making the decision to introduce a fourth drive unit and therefore to go into penalty.

This will provide further information that should not be underestimated, for the benefit of the work of the engineers in the coming months who will have the opportunity to further update all six macro-components of the drive unit (endothermic, turbocharger, MGU-H, MGU-K, battery and control unit)."

hape
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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tpe wrote:
Fri Aug 20, 2021 2:45 pm
Exactly.
That's why I find it (at least) strange when a site claims that Ferrari will update the ICE.
From what I understand, they can upgrade the CE, MKU-K and the battery, and maybe the MGU-H.

All of that, based on the information/rumors about what they have changed so far (ICE, Turbo).
From AMuS:
Ferrari is still allowed to take a development token because the Italians did not renew all six components of the drive unit in the winter. Three quarters of the package were new, one quarter was taken over from the 2020 season. The old parts will soon be upgraded. Charles Leclerc reveals: "It's in the hybrid part of the drive."

Xwang
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Sky Commentators in Italy just reported that the MGU-K and MGU-H used so far are in 2020 spec.
They will be updated to 2021 spec in Turkey.
I'm still learning English so please excuse me if my English is not good enough and feel free to correct me via PM if you want.

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jumpingfish
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Binotto is usually cautious about performance, "a significant upgrade" on the hybrid side sounds reassuring.

Hoffman900
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Why do they announce stuff like this? My guess it to appease some sponsors that there might be some “hope” in terms of performance gain.

I think I would wait until we rolled it out and then say we brought an upgrade.

LM10
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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jumpingfish wrote:
Fri Aug 27, 2021 5:45 pm
https://twitter.com/Vetteleclerc/status ... 9579365384
Binotto is usually cautious about performance, "a significant upgrade" on the hybrid side sounds reassuring.
So does that mean that Ferrari would have brought the upgraded PU as the 4th PU anyway, even if Leclerc had not needed his 3rd PU for Spa already? Or would they have planned the upgraded PU to be the 3rd one without any grid penalties?

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jumpingfish
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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LM10 wrote:
Sat Aug 28, 2021 8:40 am
jumpingfish wrote:
Fri Aug 27, 2021 5:45 pm
https://twitter.com/Vetteleclerc/status ... 9579365384
Binotto is usually cautious about performance, "a significant upgrade" on the hybrid side sounds reassuring.
So does that mean that Ferrari would have brought the upgraded PU as the 4th PU anyway, even if Leclerc had not needed his 3rd PU for Spa already? Or would they have planned the upgraded PU to be the 3rd one without any grid penalties?
I suppose they had plans to use an improved hybrid since they started this season with engine parts from 2020. But if Leclerc's engine damage affected their plans, I don't know.
I don't understand the other. Will Honda and Mercedes have an engine upgrade before the start of 2022, or are their current specifications already revolutionary-final? Or are they just using powerful homologated engines in 2021, and updates are being prepared in the bowels of their factories that they can install before the start of 2022, but after the end of 2021? Will Ferrari find itself in the role of catch-up again? if this year they will only reduce the gap to 5-10 hp, and next year the competitors will again come with a 15-20 hp advantage.

FDD
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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jumpingfish wrote:
Sat Aug 28, 2021 12:17 pm
LM10 wrote:
Sat Aug 28, 2021 8:40 am
jumpingfish wrote:
Fri Aug 27, 2021 5:45 pm
https://twitter.com/Vetteleclerc/status ... 9579365384
Binotto is usually cautious about performance, "a significant upgrade" on the hybrid side sounds reassuring.
So does that mean that Ferrari would have brought the upgraded PU as the 4th PU anyway, even if Leclerc had not needed his 3rd PU for Spa already? Or would they have planned the upgraded PU to be the 3rd one without any grid penalties?
I suppose they had plans to use an improved hybrid since they started this season with engine parts from 2020. But if Leclerc's engine damage affected their plans, I don't know.
I don't understand the other. Will Honda and Mercedes have an engine upgrade before the start of 2022, or are their current specifications already revolutionary-final? Or are they just using powerful homologated engines in 2021, and updates are being prepared in the bowels of their factories that they can install before the start of 2022, but after the end of 2021? Will Ferrari find itself in the role of catch-up again? if this year they will only reduce the gap to 5-10 hp, and next year the competitors will again come with a 15-20 hp advantage.
MERC and HONDA certainly have right to bring new spec on the beginning of 2022. How much power can gain MERC/HONDA/FER/REN with new PU in 2022
nobody knows. Like Ferrari fan I hope that at least they'll be on pair with the best :)