Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
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vorticism
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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They are and Honda experimented with an axial/centrifugal hybrid compressor in their first season in this formula. Main rule is that it has to be single stage. Axial I think limits you more packaging wise because you have to use longitudinal entry and exit, among other reasons why it has not been used. If they do have front compressor faced backward, then I'd suggest keep the MGUH at the back of the block as it was in their previous seasons' engines, as I had drawn above. That gives more room to the inlet, keeps the block mounting the same, and maintains the same sort of over-the-compressorshaft arrangement they're already used to.
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ferkan
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sat Mar 26, 2022 12:13 am
Yup that at 17:20 is was im talking about. Externally it looks too similar to what we see now in 2022. They got insider information from last year. This is definitely an artists imopression but I feel there is some truth to the compressor sucking from the back side even though they got the vanes wrong. Could be an axial compressor protuding forward? Are axial compressors evem allowed?
Chrono GP is the one that has been posting fully split turbo for last 6 months, so I wouldnt put too much thought into it.

AR3-GP
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Fri Mar 25, 2022 11:49 pm
vorticism wrote:
Thu Mar 24, 2022 7:31 pm
If it is split turbo, I was trying to make sense of why the airbox is so far back. Also, why there seems to be no plenum elbow ahead of the engine, where you might expect the compressor inlet to be. Maybe they've flipped the compressor around. They have many seasons of experience running the inlet over the compressor shaft.

https://i.imgur.com/rzpiB1f.jpg

The other explanation is that it is not split turbo, the compressor is still at the back, and the intercooler position might have been changed.
I had this concept as well with the compressor sucking from the other direction. I just didn't draw it as you did... but interestingly...

This old Scuderia fans video had it facing the other way as well...

https://youtu.be/4j8vNHszsBY?t=967

I am now trying to find other compressors like this. I think it would have to be a special case.
How did a news site get a CAD model of a Ferrari F1 engine?

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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AR3-GP wrote:
Sat Mar 26, 2022 12:45 am
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Fri Mar 25, 2022 11:49 pm
vorticism wrote:
Thu Mar 24, 2022 7:31 pm
If it is split turbo, I was trying to make sense of why the airbox is so far back. Also, why there seems to be no plenum elbow ahead of the engine, where you might expect the compressor inlet to be. Maybe they've flipped the compressor around. They have many seasons of experience running the inlet over the compressor shaft.

https://i.imgur.com/rzpiB1f.jpg

The other explanation is that it is not split turbo, the compressor is still at the back, and the intercooler position might have been changed.
I had this concept as well with the compressor sucking from the other direction. I just didn't draw it as you did... but interestingly...

This old Scuderia fans video had it facing the other way as well...

https://youtu.be/4j8vNHszsBY?t=967

I am now trying to find other compressors like this. I think it would have to be a special case.
How did a news site get a CAD model of a Ferrari F1 engine?
Thats not a CAD model though. That's a 3D model like what artist do in Maya or 3D studio to make video games and special effects.

If CAD is a technical drawing desk/ machining centre... maya and 3d studio are like an artist canvas / modelling clay.
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AR3-GP
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sat Mar 26, 2022 1:48 am
AR3-GP wrote:
Sat Mar 26, 2022 12:45 am
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Fri Mar 25, 2022 11:49 pm


I had this concept as well with the compressor sucking from the other direction. I just didn't draw it as you did... but interestingly...

This old Scuderia fans video had it facing the other way as well...

https://youtu.be/4j8vNHszsBY?t=967

I am now trying to find other compressors like this. I think it would have to be a special case.
How did a news site get a CAD model of a Ferrari F1 engine?
Thats not a CAD model though. That's a 3D model like what artist do in Maya or 3D studio to make video games and special effects.

If CAD is a technical drawing desk/ machining centre... maya and 3d studio are like an artist canvas / modelling clay.

What I mean is they would never be able to create such a visualization from a real Ferrari engine unless they were sat in a room with the engine uncloaked or stole the CAD models. They've done neither. How reliable can the visualization be?

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Oh. The visualization is just that. It's not anything accurate so they can make these visualizations without any CAD data. It's just an artist's impression. So a bunch of photos of previous cars or some insights from a Ferrari insider should be enough for him/they to make decent looking models. More than likely that atrtist is also an engineer at best or car fanatic. Likely he's not an expert at engineering because you can tell from the model that he is aware of how things work but he's not accurate with some of the working details. But the models he/they made are good enough to get the message across. They look good.

I find some of things in that engine model very coincidental, so definitely some leaks from Ferrari there got to the artist. Maybe on purpose too.
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saviour stivala
saviour stivala
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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ferkan wrote:
Sat Mar 26, 2022 12:28 am
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sat Mar 26, 2022 12:13 am
Yup that at 17:20 is was im talking about. Externally it looks too similar to what we see now in 2022. They got insider information from last year. This is definitely an artists imopression but I feel there is some truth to the compressor sucking from the back side even though they got the vanes wrong. Could be an axial compressor protuding forward? Are axial compressors evem allowed?
Chrono GP is the one that has been posting fully split turbo for last 6 months, so I wouldnt put too much thought into it.
‘’Are axial compressors even allowed?’’ Refer to autosports technical insights. 21 April 2015 – Honda radical formula 1 engine for maclaren.

Dr. Acula
Dr. Acula
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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saviour stivala wrote:
Sat Mar 26, 2022 9:21 am
ferkan wrote:
Sat Mar 26, 2022 12:28 am
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sat Mar 26, 2022 12:13 am
Yup that at 17:20 is was im talking about. Externally it looks too similar to what we see now in 2022. They got insider information from last year. This is definitely an artists imopression but I feel there is some truth to the compressor sucking from the back side even though they got the vanes wrong. Could be an axial compressor protuding forward? Are axial compressors evem allowed?
Chrono GP is the one that has been posting fully split turbo for last 6 months, so I wouldnt put too much thought into it.
‘’Are axial compressors even allowed?’’ Refer to autosports technical insights. 21 April 2015 – Honda radical formula 1 engine for maclaren.
Technically they are allowed, but not realistic because the technical regulations state that it has to be a single stage compressor. It is impossible to achieve the necessary pressures with a single stage axial compressor.

saviour stivala
saviour stivala
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Dr. Acula wrote:
Sat Mar 26, 2022 8:46 pm
saviour stivala wrote:
Sat Mar 26, 2022 9:21 am
ferkan wrote:
Sat Mar 26, 2022 12:28 am

Chrono GP is the one that has been posting fully split turbo for last 6 months, so I wouldnt put too much thought into it.
‘’Are axial compressors even allowed?’’ Refer to autosports technical insights. 21 April 2015 – Honda radical formula 1 engine for maclaren.
Technically they are allowed, but not realistic because the technical regulations state that it has to be a single stage compressor. It is impossible to achieve the necessary pressures with a single stage axial compressor.
Agreed with what you say. But. Did Honda used an axial compressor in 2015 as was claimed by Autosports?.

Dr. Acula
Dr. Acula
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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saviour stivala wrote:
Sat Mar 26, 2022 8:57 pm
Dr. Acula wrote:
Sat Mar 26, 2022 8:46 pm
saviour stivala wrote:
Sat Mar 26, 2022 9:21 am

‘’Are axial compressors even allowed?’’ Refer to autosports technical insights. 21 April 2015 – Honda radical formula 1 engine for maclaren.
Technically they are allowed, but not realistic because the technical regulations state that it has to be a single stage compressor. It is impossible to achieve the necessary pressures with a single stage axial compressor.
Agreed with what you say. But. Did Honda used an axial compressor in 2015 as was claimed by Autosports?.
No. Any claim of an axial compressor is just BS. The pressure Ratio of an good axial compressor is about 1.5ish per stage. So because of the "single stage" limitation in the rules, you would end up with about 0.5 bar boost pressure at best...Well it would explain why the Honda was so underperforming back then...but i don't think the Honda engineers wouldn't have noticed that this would limit the performance severly.

saviour stivala
saviour stivala
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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‘’But I don’t think the Honda engineers wouldn’t have noticed that this would limit the performance severely’’. Whatever type of compressor they used (what Craig Scarborough claimed or not). IN 2015 Honda engineers certainly did not. As this subject involve claims by the usual media experts of a type of turbocharger as used in formula one. The same expert is presently claiming that the Ferrari 066/7 is using a split turbo. Do you also disagree with him this time?.

basti313
basti313
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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LM10 wrote:
Thu Mar 24, 2022 8:50 pm
basti313 wrote:
Thu Mar 24, 2022 5:05 pm
ryaan2904 wrote:
Thu Mar 24, 2022 4:07 pm


Scarbs said he isn't saying
Well, I mentioned this already several times last season: From the concept the split turbo is 15% more efficient than the normal turbo.
So either I am right with everyone now on split or I am still very puzzled how they can find this power.
You sure are after all you’ve claimed before the start of this season. :lol:
Yes. As said...I was sure about split. I am just surprised overall by Ferrari. As it looks like they went for split I am wrong on issues, so far they run the engine really strong and reliable.

For Renault it is exactly what I suspected before the season: Fast, but strong issues with lifetime, eating through components already after one race....once they sort the reliability they are back in the game.

It will be crucial for Ferrari and Haas how they can keep up the reliability of the engine components.
Maybe the Schumacher engine is good in this regard. As the gearbox was ripped off, I fear the ICE is unusable, but may be good to investigate for wear after 1.5 Q and one race in real racing conditions.

wowgr8
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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A fairly reliable site says the PU is split turbo

However, it is not just an aerodynamic and frame aspect. And the V6 turbo-hybrid powertrain is also a key feature. For the F1 2022 season , the Maranello team has created a new PU both in the concept and in the placement of the components. As for the supercharging system, the turbine and compressor have been separated. The supercharger was placed inside the intake box with a new design of the upper area of ​​the V6 that would also have offered aerodynamic advantages.
https://www.funoanalisitecnica.com/2022 ... cedes.html

I remember hearing rumours of the upper part of the ICE being redesigned last year

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vorticism
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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wowgr8 wrote:
Tue Mar 29, 2022 10:27 pm
The supercharger was placed inside the intake box with a new design of the upper area of ​​the V6 that would also have offered
Maybe a translation issue. If the compressor is 'in the airbox' then the entire MGUH would have to be raised as it must lie parallel to the crankshaft. If that means to suggest they have spmething like a 2015 Honda arrangement, the MGUH I think would need to be placed quite high up in order to fit their large compressor housing inside the vee.
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vorticism
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Best three guesses:

1. Existing layout remains
2. Split turbo with backward facing compressor (what I illustrated earlier ITT)
3. Split turbo, raised, inside vee (if the article wowgr8 posted is on to anything)

Image
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